Engine Overhaul

I'm gathering information about restoring a Farmall A, and I have a question about overhauling the engine. This may seem a bit redundant, but it confuses me. Any kits I have seen that included the sleeves had a note attached that said "sleeves & sleeve seals, pistons & piston rings (overbore from 3" to 3-1\8")". This looks to me like I would have to have the cylinders bored from the factory 3" to 3 1\8". Is that right? If so, why can I not seem to find a sleeve set that does not require boring the engine? Wasn't that the point of having the sleeves? Also, any other info you may have for a first-timer would be helpful as well.

The sleeves are wet sleeves. They will fit and make the tractor into a 123cid. No machining needed. The sleeves are sealed at the top by the head gasket, and at the bottom by large Orings. JimN

The 113 was a 3" bore x 4" stroke, and you'd have to look pretty far to find piston and sleeve sets in 3" bore. 3-1/8" is pretty much the standard anymore and gives you a 123. The outside diameter of the sleeve will be the same and fit up just fine. The difference is the wider bore, meaning the walls are 1/16" thinner.

Ok, well that's good to know. Does this mean that the engine would then give a bit more horsepower? Does the thinner wall make for a lower quality product?

no all those sleves are not the same,some have a diffrent taper at the bottom.

Make sure your block is very clean where the new seals are installed. Coat the end of the sleeve with dish detergent so it will slide easily into the seal. Hal

Hey ADLM, I overhauled my Super-A, which had a 113 engine. I wondered the same thing. As I was told, the improvements in metallurgy, since the engine was built in 1949, allow for a thinner cylinder wall with no loss of integrity.
I bought my engine kit from this site, sleeves and pistons made by Tisco, and they slid into my block just sweet as can be.
I had my block hot-tanked and cleaned and oil passages brushed out and magna-fluxed by my machinist, so it was spotless. He did my head, and crank too. And with the new parts, it was all so pretty I had to take a couple of pictures.





There were pitfalls. My crank had a crack, (found by magna-fluxing), a head bolt was stripped, the one stud for the rocker-arm assembly that allows oil up to lube the rockers was stripped, I had a mis-matched piston, and the connecting rods had been swapped in their cylinders,- it was like an archeological expedition.
I took lots of pictures, and there's a huge wealth of info and knowledge here, so ask questions as you go along.

Yup!
I think it takes the 20-horsepower up to maybe 50-55!
(*wink*)

So did you get the comprehensive kit then? I'm not sure how far I need to go with this, the last time the tractor ran, it was good and solid. It does have some leaks and a whole lot of rust, though. I've always wanted to learn how to rebuild and engine. Mostly I want the experience and the ability to say that I know my tractor "inside and out."

Oh, and those pics are pretty awesome. That block looks brand new!

I got fooled by the descriptions of the engine kit too. When it says “overbore 3” to 3 1/8”, that’s an ‘announcement’, not a ‘direction’.
And yes, I got the complete kit but without the bearings, as I mention below.

It all started for me because both my clutch was slipping badly and my brakes were underwhelming, making for a very exciting time when I was brush-hogging downhill. More than once I thought I was going into the trees. So I had to remove the engine anyway. Though the compression on my engine wasn’t too shabby, close to 115 in all cylinders, once it was warmed up, my oil pressure which would start at 30# would drop to 10#, which worried me, so I thought that as long as I had the engine off, I might as well go in and take a look, so that I wouldn’t have to take it off twice. Besides, the front and rear main seals also leaked bad. The other half of that, though, was that I too wanted to do it for the experience and the knowledge, and it DID turn into “P and R Pete’s Excellent Adventure”.

In regards to the engine internals, it all spiraled from there, like I said in the other post, when I kept finding one problem after another. It wasn’t dismaying- I had previously decided to do the full engine kit. But it WAS fascinating, to see where things had gone wrong, and where prior repairs had been boggled.

One important question- have you ever done an engine before?
Myself, I would not have been prepared for the critical measuring/assessment that might have needed to be done. I would have had to have farmed that out to the machinist, though little was necessary on mine due to using all the new parts. All he had to measure was the new used-crank I had to find. BTW, to that end, he did have to ‘turn’ the crank, and he supplied me my bearings- I bought the “complete engine kit minus the bearings”, (for some $300). If you don;t get the crank "turned", it needs critial assessment, as do the pistons and old sleeves.

In my behalf, being inexperienced, I had the advantage of a very friendly local mechanic who was always available for advice and the loan of a tool, and a Chrysler master-mechanic who gets on a separate forum that I frequent. Those guys were HUGE for my waxing and waning confidence as I worked my way through.
That said, I listened carefully to all the advice and caveats, and worked my way through. She starts on a dime, she runs like a champ, nothing leaks, the oil pressure now stays ‘pegged’ on 30#, she pulls like a mule, (well, a small mule. Only 20+ HP) and I had an awesome experience and gained a wealth of knowledge.

Matter-of-fact, I saved the whole process on a CD, so I could keep the experience.

Tell ya what, I bought a VCR tape put out by a husband/wife team that goes through an engine rebuild. They didn’t change much of anything, and were far from meticulous, but it gives you a reasonable idea of the process. If you’d like it, you can have it. Send me an e-mail.

Oops. I have to 'allow' e-mail. Hope this does it.

You dont bore the block the sleeves just have a thinner wall to increase the bore. I t is common to use the overbore kits as it increases the cu from 113-123 and will give around 5 hp increase. It depends on whether you need more HP.

So all in all, how difficult of a job is this for a novice using the complete kit with the help of a VHS tape and a few manuals? Also, does the A engine bolt up to a regular automotive engine stand, or is that even needed? How heavy an engine is this thing? Also, P and R Pete, I got that email out to you. Let me know if it doesn't go through.

ADLM, I considered myself a novice, and I pulled it off. I used the IH Service Manual, the I&T Shop Manual, and a parts manual, all of which I got from BinderBooks. That said, I don"t think they would have sufficed for ME without the help of those other guys and this forum. But that"s just me. I asked a bazillion questions, and patiently awaited answers before proceeding. If you"re quick to anger and bull-headed, ya might run into problems!

I can"t tell you how heavy the engine is, but an engine stand is necessary, as was a "cherry-picker" for removing the engine from the tractor. Not good to risk bending critical parts by trying to "muscle" off the engine. I could lift the block, no problem, but only after the head, crank, and flywheel were off.

I"ve assumed you"ve used wrenches and sockets before. You think that you have that "mechanic"s feel", that sense of how hard to torque a nut without risking breaking a stud? Nothing to ruin your day like breaking things. Have a torque wrench? You HAVE to have one, for the engine internals. Even then, the manuals don"t say a lot about how much torque to use beyond the rod and main caps, and flywheel.

You have a place to do this indoors? Can you be meticulous with cleanliness when putting it back together, and methodical with laying things out, labeling nuts and bolts, doing things in proper order, taking notes? Many things have to go back exactly from where they came, lifters, connecting rods, etc. Can"t just pile things on a table.

Are you prepared for some expense? You can probably expect some unforeseen problems. I had to buy a new-used crank, ($125), and the machine shop work on the block, head, crank, and connecting rods was several hundreds, plus $300 for the engine kit.

And are you prepared for a good bit of frustration? You can expect to run into hassles, stuck bolts, broken parts, tools you can"t find beg or borrow, etc. I got angry, frustrated, disgusted, despairing, and that was just getting the main pulley off. It"ll be a journey!

If none of this gets you going, and you can do without your tractor for awhile this time of year, hey, why not. Engines don"t get any simpler.
It"s gotta be your call though. I"d feel bad if you tackled it on my advice, and got lost halfway through. And I"d sure like to hear that you have some knowledgable help somewhere down your road, if you need it!

Man, you just rained all over my parade. It"s ok though, I still think I"m up to the challenge. At least, I think I will be by the time I start. I can be a bit impulsive, but i can also keep my cool. It sounds like I"m going to do just fine, with a little help from my friends. I do have a couple of people who know engines really well that I could turn to in a bind.

ADLM, that"s OK, I MEANT to rain on your parade, because I wanted you to be fully thinking about any possible downside. If you could listen to all that, and still feel OK to tackle it, you"re ready!

I had that same stubbornness when the Chrysler mechanic rained on MY parade. It made me all the more determined.

I sent you a return e-mail. Stay in touch.