Slow Farmall Tractors

Farmall Bob · Feb 21, 2009

I just want to thank you all for helping me out with my question about gears. I learned more than what I expected, which can be a good thing.

Now I have another question concerning slow Farmall Tractors. Hugh mentioned it would be better to purchase a Farmall B-275; B-414; or
B-424. I looked them up in the Intertec Used Tractor Price Guide, and noticed that they all have 8 forward speeds and 2 reverse speeds. I am supposing that is why they are slower because they have more speed ranges to choice from? I have also noticed that the Farmall 330U has 10 forward speeds and 2 reverse speeds and would think this Tractor would be a better choice? Comments please! Thank you!

Bob

tractorsam · Feb 21, 2009

Generally speaking the more gears there are to chose from the lower and higher the speed range will be, but not necessarily. In the B-414 for example you have four forward gears with a choice of hi or lo range. I believe the 330U (which would probably be harder to find?) uses the same gearbox as the 350U in which case it only has 5 gears plus the torque amplifier. So although there are 10 forward gear choices I imagine that 8 of those 'gears' will overlap. For example I have a Massey Ferguson 35 (similar principle to a B-414) with a six speed gearbox and a speed range from 1mph to 16mph (full throttle). The gears are 1L,2L,3L,1H,2H,3H, in that order. On a 330U the gears will go 1L 1H 2L 2H 3L 3H 4L 4H 5L 5H. I don't know if I'm making any sense here but there is a considerable difference between them. Sam

Hugh MacKay · Feb 21, 2009

Bob: Actually the B or British models are slower than the 330U or any other US designed and built Farmall or Utility. Lowest gear in British is about 60% as fast as US built.

The Europeans were using roto tillers 20 years before we were. American tractors were built and designed for plows, disks and cultivators.

Wardner · Feb 21, 2009

Check the thread below. I did the math on various M-450 sized tractors concerning first gear speeds and ratios. These will also apply to H-350 tractors although the ratios will be slightly different.

Slowest pre 450 Farmall tractor will have 560 ring and pinion, 560 first, TA low, small tires, and 660 planetary axles. I am guessing top speed in low range 5th would be around 8 mph. I have done all that to a SMTA with the exception of the 660 planetaries. It's kinda hard to hide those.

I suppose if you messed around with the camshaft, installed electronic ignition, and used a smaller carb, you might get an engine that would run well at 200-300 rpm. Don't know how long it would last.
Click me

Farmall Bob · Feb 21, 2009

Hi Hugh,

This is very interesting and more so as time passes on. I probably won't use a roto-tiller as they can be expensive, and for what I want to do a plow and harrow will do just fine for a year or two. Just concerned about soil structure. Thanks!

Bob

Farmall Bob · Feb 21, 2009

Hi Sam,

Yes, that makes sense. I didn't realize the Farmall 330U had a torque amplifier. Thanks!

Bob

tractorsam · Feb 21, 2009

I don't know for sure myself (my number series book is currently out on loan) but I believe the parentage of the 330U is a C-135 engine (uprated C-123) mated to a 350U rear end including the torque amplifier. Sam

Farmall Bob · Feb 21, 2009

Hi Wardner,

That's very nice/interesting. I really appreciate your help in this matter. How do you mess around with the camshaft? Probably if I had a varable timing gear on the front to move that would be possible? How about that smaller carb.? Will the tractor run strong enough? Thank you!

Bob

Wardner · Feb 21, 2009

Bob,

I am not a motor builder and can't offer any how-to info. On a M-450, one could use a H carb or Super H venturi. The cam might only need to be offset one tooth or, in the worst case, reground. I dunno.

If you rebuild the any motor for torquey slow speed, the high speed will suffer. I don't have any info on adjustable cams. Doubt if they are even available.

Farmall Bob · Feb 21, 2009

Hi Sam,

Yes, according tp Intertec Used Tractor Price Guide it has a 135 gas engine, has a PTO HP of 37.9 and weights in at 3920 lbs. Thanks!

Bob

Farmall Bob · Feb 21, 2009

Hi Wardner,

Yes, on the cam on cars they play with tac and dwell to increase power/speed, but the trick is the timing gears meshing to correct adjustment in the gearing you want. I am assuming you can do the same with a tractor, but you would have to change the gear on the end og the cam with one that can be adjustable, like you say a half tooth/tooth? On the carb. I think as you say will work, but you probably would have to play with that also? Thanks!

Bob

Wardner · Feb 21, 2009

Bob,

Just so you know, any IH utility is an International, not a Farmall. For instance, Chevolet did not make a Coupe de Ville or Eldorado.

Goto the YT pulling forum for engine modifications. Talk to Chad S.

tractorsam · Feb 21, 2009

Now this is a guess on my part but I would imagine that to improve the slow running of the engine you would need to retard the timing of the camshaft slightly (probably nowhere near so much as a full tooth) and in regrinding it you'd probably want to remove some of the valve 'overlap'? Sam

RAW in IA · Feb 21, 2009

Not sure how the 330U gearing is but on the 350 Farmall it was 1L 2L 1H 3L 2H 4L 3H 4H 5L 5H.

tractorsam · Feb 21, 2009

I think the 330U gearing is the same as the 350's. To tell the truth the gearing order was a guess as I've not enough seat time on one to know, I was merely attempting to demonstrate how the gears overlap. Or at least how I thought they would. Sam

CGtractor · Feb 21, 2009

Not sure what your goal is but power curve can be moved to a lower rpm by advancing the camshaft. You will need a degree wheel to do this. New keyways can be broached in the crank sprocket to change timing. Sonny Daniels at Bullet Cams might be able to give some insight as to different cam grinds.

Hugh MacKay · Feb 21, 2009

Bob: I've been growing vegetables for 50 years and never owned a roto tiller. I've seen a lot more soil structure damaged with roto tillers than conventional tillage. I grew potatoes and rutabagas commercially plus a garden of other vegetables.

I once had a neighbor call, home gardener and he owned a walk behind rear tine tiller. He told me he could see my garden and how much better it was than his. He wanted me to plow and disk his garden, as he had a real compaction problem. I plowed it about 10" deep then disked it, disking down some organic matter he had. When I was done, in my opinion it was ready to plant. He then spent half the day on this with his tiller.

Later that summer he suggested his soil was packed hard, almost like concrete. I said, "you created the concrete that is your problem. Industry manufactures concrete by grinding the right soil mix to a dust, you did the same with the tiller. When the rain hit it you had a poor quality concrete." I told him to shove the tiller over a cliff.

Farmall Bob · Feb 21, 2009

Hi CGtractor,

I believe we are trying to receive a lower speed with more power. May be an off set key in cam shaft, playing with the dwell. I think we may have gotten off on a tangent? Thanks!

Bob

mkirsch · Feb 21, 2009

If you're trying to win a slow tractor contest, that is one thing, but you aren't going to run a rototiller effectively with the engine only running 200-300 RPM.

Farmall Bob · Feb 21, 2009

Hi Hugh,

Yes, I know all about what roto-tillers do and found out the hard way as I have a Troy-Bilt and use it twice a year once in the spring and once in the fall. Under 5-6 inches of soil there is this 3 inches of packed hard soil. Used my Gravely walk behind this last spring with a rotary plow and broke up all that hard packed soil. This is my backyard garden 100'X40'. Planning on a large garden 1-2 acres vegetables 1-2 acres cover crops, with tractor plow and harrows. I just would like to get in tune with newer technology impliments out there as It has changed since I was a kid 50 years ago.

Thanks Hugh you have been very helpfull.

Bob

Redrider · Feb 21, 2009

According to the IH Operators manuel A farmall 350 with 11 X 38 tires the speeds are as follows.
1st low (TA back) 1.7
direct 2.5
2nd low 2.6
direct 3.8
3rd low 3.5
direct 5.2
4th low 4.5
direct 6.6
5th low 10.9
direct 16.1
Reverse low 2.1
direct 3.1

RR

jwal10 · Feb 22, 2009

Also remember that a rototiller pushes on a tractor when running, a tractor with the older TA does not hold a tractor back when in the low position. The tiller will push the tractor. Older TA's don't work with rottotillers....James

Bob Kerr · Feb 22, 2009

I drove what I think was a IH 444 utility a few years back and that thing had the lowest gears I ever saw on any tractor. low range 1 st gear it would barely move at full throttle. I think it was british built.

Hugh MacKay · Feb 22, 2009

Bob: There were two quite different 444 tractors, however both had same engine, same transmission and rear end.

The tractor sold it the US had the British engine, transmission and rear end and that was shipped to Louisville as one piece. Louisville plant installed delco electronics, swept back fron axle, hydrostatic steering, radiator, wheels, Independant PTO, sheet metal, hydraulics and hitch.

The 444 sold in Canada, Austrailia and Europe was completely assembled in Britain and had Lucas electrical. straight front axle, drag link steering with power assist cylinder along the left side, British radiator, hydraulics and hitch. The live PTO was 2 stage clutch. Engine rpm and gear speeds would have been the same.

Bob Kerr · Feb 23, 2009

It must have been the sold in US variety. I just drove it for a guy who bought it, to his house about 6 miles away.3 weeks before, I was offered it for $300 but didn't have the $$ at the time. Turned out to be a real sweet tractor that needed very little.

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