2150 Paint question

I took advantage of a couple of days of pretty nice sunny weather here in SE Indiana and painted the major sheet metal parts of an A and a 1206. I used 2150 CIH Red and I"m getting an orange peel effect on the finish when it dries. I used the same paint combination (thinned 5 - 8%with mineral spirits and enamel hardener added per instructions) on a 706 last summer with very nice results. Used the same paintgun, air dryer, and the parts were at 68 degrees F when I painted. All surfaces were primed and sanded and extremely clean. I need to say that I"m no body man and maybe just got lucky the last time. Do they make fisheye eliminator for enamel? Does anyone have any other ideas? Can I wetsand the dried 2150 with 800 grit and then re-shoot? Thanks in advance for help!

I painted a 1256 last summer with 2150 and mine turned out orange peely but, I was able to wait a week and wet sand it with 1500 grit and buff it back. If you don't have any experience in buffing enamel my advice is don't try it. Then just wet sand it with 600-800 grit and re-shoot it but, wait a good week or 2 to let all the solvents out of the fresh paint or you will have a major solvent popping or lifting. If you get a chance on a warm sunny day put them out in the sun for a couple of hours to help bake out some of the solvents before re-shooting them! I'm sure others will chime in and tell you different ways and that is fine. This is just the way I do it and it works!

Are you having an orange peel problem or a fish-eye problem? The reason I ask is because you mention one as a problem and then the other in terms of "medicine" needed. The two are generally not related.

I'm in Alabama and it is still too cold to paint here, unless I were to be inside a heated building.

mike

Put this request over on the Paint and Bodywork forum. I'm sure they would have an answer. Hal

there are a number of things that can cause orange peel, i am putting up a link that will explain some of the causes and remedys for orange peel. you can either wet sand and buff the orage peel out, or sand and reshoot. production clears for base/clear are designed to give some orange peel effect to allow the ability to wetsand and buff an automotive finish to match a factory finish,. there are "glamour" clears that will lay out like glass, no orange peel. as far as fisheye eliminator, it will not eliminate orange peel. to avoid fisheyes, dont have any silicone bases products near your paint area. silicone sprays and "armour all" are killers. here is a link
orange peel

Why do you use mineral spirits with the 2150.

I've shot a ton of 2150 and I believe I have it pretty well down (no conceipt intended). I use the Case IH reducer, never straight mineral spirits. I thin at the recommended (on the paint can) max of 8-1 and shoot at around 43-45 psi with a Devilbiss JGA cup gun. No hardener. I keep a pile of sheet metal scraps to test the flow. I've shot at temperatres down to 55 degrees with no difference in results. I would try a better reducer and use more of it. If my math is right which is a toss up since I went to public schools, 8-1 is around 11% of the total volume. Orange peel from my experience means too heavy of a paint film or not enough reducer. I play with the pressure at the gun and this stuff flows like glass. I slap a little car wax on it and have had "experts" at shows ask me more than once what brand of clear coat I use.

If you are going to repaint, go ahead and sand it well with 320 grit. If you are going to sand and then polish go with the 1200 grit.
Use the slower reducer, lose the mineral spirits.Open your flow valve a little and reduce the air pressure.

Gordo

I would have to say that ya put it on to heavy and did not allow enough flash time between coats. Now i am by no means a painter but watched my buddy paint around 25 -35 tractors a year and each and every tractor got 6 coats and the first three you could see primer . each coat was allowed as he called it time to flash then the forth coat he started to build the color and while waiting on it to Flash you could actually see it go from how should i say this from a plain old red to oh my a nice shine then it was time for the next . All he ever used was the 2150 red the I H thinner and a dash of 77S dupont hardner . as to the amount of thinner he mixed 7/8 cup of paint to a 1/8 cup of thinner . They all came out with a nice shine to the point ya could read what was on your hat . it was like looking into a red mirror .

Thanks for all the replies, guys! I really appreciate it. I tried to shoot some IH white(ivory) today and have come to the conclusion that some, if not most of my problem is in my gun. To answer a couple of questions:

Gene - I thin/reduce with mineral spirits because my local CIH dealer doesn't stock the IH thinner. When I asked him what I should thin it with, he told me mineral spirits. I usually trust him on most parts issues, because he has 30 years IH parts experience. As I said before, I was a complete inexperienced novice painting my first tractor 4 years ago. I would be grateful if you or someone can recommend a particular reducer/thinner. Gauger uses the CIH reducer, so I will have to get some.

Mike - My problem is indeed orange peel. Thanks for the clarification. I used the "fish-eye" terminology due to a retired bodyman's advice that I should add some fish-eye eliminator to help with the orange peel. This guy has been retired for 25 years, and doesn't seem to be too up on his paint knowledge.

Gauger - I paint with a newer-style El-Cheapo HVLP gravity feed gun (that was a Christmas gift from a loved one) at approximately 30 lbs pressure per the recommendation instructions with the gun. I have a better gun (the brand of which I can't remember now) that is the older style with the can on the bottom. I may get it out and try it. The HVLP one was spattering everywhere today (and sounded like a mig-welder part of time, no matter how I set the air) to the point that I stopped and completely cleaned the gun again and oiled the washer per the instructions that came with it. About the hardener--- do you think it might be contributing to the orange peel? How long does it take to dry with out the hardener? I painted some fender brackets and u-bolts a while back and just plumb forgot to add any hardener, and it took the better part of 3 days in the summer for the paint to dry enough to mount them. You're right about the reducer--- i'm not using enough.

Tractor Vet - You and others are probably right about me laying it on a bit heavy at one time. Can you give me any hints on how to figure out when the Flash point occurs or when I could apply the 2nd/3rd/etc. coats? I'm sure temp and humidity affect it greatly, but I'm wondering if it has to do with tackiness, or a certain look the coat gets to it? I know a lot of this comes with experience which I don't have. Again, any pointers will be appreciated. I'd love to be able to read what my hat says! After talking with you pros on this stuff, my hat should say "Pay somebody who knows what he's doing to paint your tractor".

Gordo - Can you expand on the "slower reducer"? Are there different speeds of drying time with different reducers?

Glennster, Hal, and Mark - Thanks for all the tips/help and the link. Hal, I did psot this to the other forum after you recommended it. I had never noticed that forum on the list.

I'll let you know what the next spray job looks like. Farmboy856

I'm no expert on the hardener issue since I've never used it but I have discussed it with the real expert at the local auto paint store. Sounds to me like there should be no issues if it is the right stuff for the type of paint you're using. Also never used HVLP but my first cup gun was a Super El Cheapo and the results were similar. It was just harder to adjust and get a good pattern. I use the 2150 for a number of reasons and the only real down side is the dry time. I don't know if they changed the formula but it seems to me that it dries to the touch faster than in past years but the stuff still takes weeks to really set up. Ten years ago I laid the newly (a few days) painted grill from my Super C face down on a soft quilt to install the screen and to my horror it had the fabric pattern in the paint when I flipped it over. It was a pretty warm day but it felt very dry to the touch.