A few weeks ago I posted a question concerning the rear end size on a 656. Here"s a link to that post

http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=423079&highlight=


Yesterday I was in Armada again and I stopped and looked at the 656 (again).

I think I know what the man was referring to when he said it has a "small rearend".

Shockingly, it uses the smaller "H or 460" size clutch housing ! Not the M / 560 /706 ,etc larger housing bolt pattern.

Looking at the bolt pattern where the side rails bolt to the clutch housing, and looking at the location of the 2 upper most (clutch housing) bolts attach to the engine, I can say it is absolutely the smaller H / 460 pattern.

So the 656 is a hybrid of sorts ?! Smaller clutch than a 560 / 706, yet heavier rear end than the 560....

Kind of strange. You can see what I"m talking about in this photo if you are familiar with the side rails and where they attach to the housing.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24235004@N04/2766115487/

Gearnut: I think you best get out some parts books, your visual on outside of tractor does not tell the whole story.

I think if you look at the manuals, you will find there is a steady progression. All new tractors were a hybrid of the older ones and parts interchanged. Same way they build cars. Each year they take an old car and throw on a few new parts and call them new until they decide to change the whole model.

Hugh, enlighten me !

Just to be clear, my ONLY point is, the 656 shares the smaller clutch housing bolt pattern, and side rail-to-clutch housing bolt pattern, with the H and 460. Which is a bit surprising to me, as the 656 shares the more powerful 60+ hp 263 engine with the 560 and 706. And, the 656 "appears" to have a very beefy rear end, perhaps even more beefy than a 560.

So why would IH choose to use the smaller clutch housing, I guess, is my delimma??

I have no personal knowledge of internal part sizes, and am not implying anything in my observation.

This is strictly a "structural thing", for me.

When I say "structural", I mean.... the larger clutch housing-to-engine pattern of a 560 is a larger "truss", capable of handling more load/bending/twisting, which only makes sense when a larger 60+ hp engine is being employed. Also, the side rail bolt pattern on a 560 is larger (than a 460), capable of providing more structural rigidity....yet IH choose to use the smaller 460 pattern for the 656. ....

I always thought of a 656 as a heavier tractor... yet in a way, it isn't, at least in this area.

That's my ONLY point

When they introduced the gear drive 656 farmall I took one look and said , what the hey, they are using a 460 TA housing. Well, it isn't exactly the same but is same outside dimensions. They hang in there though.

Gearnut: I don't have specs on these tractors anymore, but I farmed for years with both 560 and 656 diesels, and a 300 gas. Other than hydraulics 300 and 460 torque case are same size. Neither one are as large as 656.

The difference between 560 and 656 can be decieving, because of attachment of frame rails to clutch housing. The 656 had changes made to TA from the days of 300, 460 and 560. I know 300 had a 10" clutch, expect 460 had the same. 656 has an 11" clutch. I don't remember size of 560 clutch but I expect it is 11", same as 656. The reason I say that is I do have specs for 706, 756, 766 and 966, and all have a 12" clutch.

Having said the above I suspect the drivelive of 656 is equal to or heavier than 560. I admit the case looks smaller, so does the rear end case look smaller. I put 11,000 hours on my 560, 15,000 hours on my 656. Transmission top was never off 656, however transmission top was off my 560. My 560 and 656 did virtually no loader work, thus clutches and TA went roughly 10,000 hours on each tractor.

I think your accessment is flawed, over the years casting improvement evolved to point companies were able to build smaller looking casting that were actually stronger than old ones. I also had a 1066, throw in that for comparrison, 656 looks ok to me. If you want to take it one step further, throw in a W-40 for comparrison.