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MW 9 speed

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Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
I want to put a m&w 9 speed in a farmall M that we use for tractor pulling, just wanted to know what i all need for parts and how to put it in the tractor
 
i doubt if you would be able to find the whole kit for the 9 speed. best bet would be to find an m that had one in it and swap the rear end assemblys. if you found a parts m with the 9 speed, that wuld be the way to go,
 
A M&W 9 speed will not help ya one tiny little bit unless ya make enough pony power that ya have way to much in 4th but just not enough for 5th . As all they do is split between 4th and 5th . Now if you are a good enough BARN YARD engineer then ya want to engineer a tranny in front or the input to the main transmission , sorta like a Bronnie . Now if ya was really good ya would have the shifter hooked to the rod for the M hyd.'s Now this is as far as i am going with this as to how i know of this i ain't ah sayen i am going to play Sholtz like Hogan's hero's I KNOW NOTHING I SAW NOTHING .
 
I met this old guy that used to work at IH for 40 years. HE has had all sorts of desireable farmalls, like awhite demonstrator, and an AV. He still has some parts. He has a thing I think he called a hydra creeper. It was Thing you put on the Pto that was hooked to the hydraulics and drove the tractor off of the PTO. Something like that might work better and give you more speed selections.
 
As the Tractor Vet indicates, unless yuo are pulling in 4th gear now, and need a gear or 4 between 4th (now) and 5th (now), it is not your best choice. An M&W hand clutch (psudo live PTO) remade to have quick change gearing in the bull drive pinion system, with quick change gearing adapted to the shafts on the M&W would provide gear reduction. So would The Vet's concept of putting a compact range transmission after the master clutch, and befor the trans input. (where the coupling is located) These are not easy solutions, but a new 5th 6th 7th & 8th gear is not either. JimN
 
one just came in at mcfaddens in sharon springs NY, nice old M with a mw hand clutch (518)284-2090,dont know a thing about it just seen it monday morn fresh off a truck
 
Janicholson wrote:

"An M&W hand clutch (psudo live PTO) remade to have quick change gearing in the bull drive pinion system, with quick change gearing adapted to the shafts on the M&W would provide gear reduction."

Jim, you will have to explain that one a little better. Are you talking about four bull gears and four shiftable pinions? There is no room for that hardware.
 
OK, Tractor Vet,

Why be coy?

Did you sign a confidentiality agreement?

Why can't we get some details?
 
Fellows he has a big inch engine and wants to go faster than 4th. Look on page 4 or 5 pulling forum. If he can run in first or second gear and in high side of M&W the M transmission will stand up better than running in forth. As others said it would be best to find a whole unit even if putting parts in yours.
I wouldn't buy one unless price was cheap unless you could look in rear and check out though. If you know what to look for you can see enough through belt pulley gear box opening to check all teeth on M&W gears and able to roll shafts. Most times the first M&W gears I find going bad are 3rd and 4th drive on bottom shaft. Also make sure shifting parts are good on counter shaft. It is possible to just use the high side constant mesh with M&W input shaft and modify so mesh gear locks to counter shaft, and rest M parts. You won't be able to use 5th gear or anything slower than about 3/4 mile faster than 4th now though.
 
Take a M7W pinion attached hand clutch. It has a pinion gear and carrier that replaces the IH unit. These have a shaft that is connected to the differential side gear, this shaft is running in the center of the pinion, and extends to the place where the brake is usually located. There are drive and driven disks on the outside with a lever over center clutch that controls the power to the bull pinion. If a person made a gear change for that set of splines on the outside, and set it up to make a reduction between the pinion and the drive "shaft" it would allow a reduction in the entire system. It would not be for field use. it would be for pulling. The only difficulty is it would be outside the tractor, and unless shrouded it would be visible. Hard to make? Shre. Using a short track quick change gear set and adapter would be a far shorter route than reengineering the whole thing. JimN
 
A far easier method is to use a ring and pinion from a W6. Net result many gears of higher speed!! reliable and available! JimN
 
Since i do not fallow the pulling board there is and easier way for getting extra speed , Just get a W6 ring and pinion and put that in .
 
Jim, I still don't get it. When you say drive shaft, are you talking about the pinion shaft, axle, or something else? If power is going to the bull gear and its axle, and is being delivered by the pinion shaft, you have to change both gears or alter the centerline of one shaft. Good luck on that. Yes, I am familiar with Hallibrand quick-change axle. The input shaft is lowered.

I am not really that dumb. I am currently installing a hydraulic powered second countershaft in a W-9 transmission. I need creeper capacity.
 
With respect, and I do respect your judjment and ideas!!, A standard M pinion has a splined brake shaft running out the end into the brake housing. The differential drives the pinion gear directly. The M&W pinion is hollow, and driven from the outside. In the hollow center is a shaft that is driven by the differential, and extends through the pinion to the outside. The M&W clutch locks the pinion to this shaft, driving the pinion at 1:1 with the differential. The only thing the clutch does is allow the pinion to be disconnected from the differential. When the M&W clutch is disengaged the differential turns freely (spiders tumbling M&W shaft turning, and the disconnected pinion stopped)
In my "Mind's eye" setup a set of gears would allow the pinion to turn much (or a little) slower. thus reducing the total gear ratio. It could also increase the ratio. It would be nice to use pre-engineered gears to make this "box" so ratios could be changed. The down side would be the wear on the differential, because it would be turning all the time (as though having a tire 70% smaller on one side. But for pulling, or creeping, I think it would be irrelevent). Jim
 
Depends he may still end up running forth gear.
Transmission is stronger toward rear of mainshaft and counter shaft. Unless he has enough power to go past 2nd high with M&W I see no reason to add the W6 gears. think a good M&W by itself is better unless he has to go faster than 2nd then add W6. Just my opinion though.
 
We are at 525ci now with about 180 hp and running 18.4-38 tires and 4th gear is to slow now in the light classes, how much would a w6 ring&pinion speed it up, THANKS FOR REPLIES
 
I disagree with the post that you can tell the condition of a 9spd looking from the top. One of the most common wear parts is the shifting dog. This is caused by incorrect shifting adjustments. I would think if you put 180hp to a 9spd This dog or the gear center would blow.
 
You will need the entire bottom shaft with gears, the top input shaft (preferebly the entire input assembly) at least the forth/fifth slider (it is different than stock and if you get all slider gears the tranny will run without wining) and the shifting assembly. The shifter swings on a pin that goes through the hole of the reverse idler where normally there is a bolt that holds the reverse idler shaft from turning in its bore. You will need to drill this hole out. It is not a hard swap to do, and even easier if you take it out of the donor tractor so that you can see how it all goes together.

Good luck
 
You are right the range selector is the weakest part but, I know of several 200 horse plus M's running 9 speeds.
 
Sorry, after reading my post you are correct to point out the shift spline. Was meaning you could check gear teeth if transmission gears were rolled but didn't make it clear about shift parts. Wish I knowed more than I do about the 9 speeds, but after having upwards of 15 units and still have some, there all not exactly alike. There was some changes in shift parts along the way. Guess I'm lucky, never had a shift dog fail other than shift pins comming loose on a few. Some shift sleeves have 2 balls and popet springs to hold in gear range others have 4. Like SH said there's pullers using them with more power than he has.
 
Don't know what RPM you try to stay at going down track or what the distance is from center of axle to ground with your tires is. But this may give you a idea if I got the math right, in a hurry and didn't double check so you may want to figure it yourself. If all gears are standard M and you was turning 1450 RPM and distance from center of axle to ground is 31.6 in 4th now thats 5.8 MPH. With W6 R&P thats 6.2 MPH. With M&W on high side and standard 1st in M thats 6.8 MPH. W6 R&P is 47 and 19. M&W high range constant mesh gears are 29 driving a 34 tooth.
If you use a W6 R&P get the main shaft bearing retainer with it. If you use the M one you will run into trouble setting gears up.
 
That hydra thingy was made for the little 113 engines and would no way handle 180 hp. It also slowed the ground speed down and he wants more speed
 
Close!!
18.4-38, 1760 rpm
-standard gearing 4th =7.38 mph
-W6 R&P 4th =7.85

High range standard R&P
-1st=8.6
-2nd=11.45
-3rd=14

As you can see the W6 R&P is only about 6% faster, not enough for a big stroker.

One tip when calculating ground speed is to use the actual tire rolling circumference. This can be found on the Firestone website.
 
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