251069 Versus 354898

Okay...Here We go, first of all there are certain parameters that can't be deviated from. #1 The block must be a 251069! I know I can put a Super C engine in this tractor, that is not the goal.
#2 The tractor still must be able to do what a Super A was meant to do....plow, disc, cultivate, run other machinery off the PTO for instance...and not run hot, must be easy to start Hot or Cold...Yaw'll know what I mean, probably better than I do.

Gene....The holes in the bottom web will have to be enlarged .210.. Gene, You shouldn't put the ideas in My head, like the shaved head, 340 head, 42 HP, after all I'm not the purest angle singin' in the choir. How much do You think the 240 head could be shaved and still fit rule #2

Tractor Vet...3 1/4" looks to be as far out as this engine could be punched, granted it could go .030 possibly more But bear in mind I already have the 3 1/4" pistons

Mr MacKay...Right now there is over .750 of metal between the holes in the bottom web. Removein' .210" still leaves.540"

The more I look at this project the easeier it gets. I've got a price in mine I'll pay to have this done, over that I'll bring it home and do it Myself. As I've said before I'm blessed from havein' spent a few short years workin' around My Father and Grandfather ( way too short ) one of the things I learned early on was heatreatin' and how to make D reamers or what is sometimes known as Cannon reamers. This has helped over the years when I would have an idea for a "WILDCAT" cartridge, I don't have to wait for a tool company to make a reamer, I'll make a D reamer. I can't guess over the years how many D reamers I've made for spindle bolts and bushin' etc.
With that said, here is what I think is the easiest way. I'll take a peice of 01 steel 3 1/2" in dia. ,4" long. Block is upside down on the millin' table. On My lathe startin' on the round bar I'll turn it down to 3.225 for a distance of .5" That will serve as a pilot. For the next 1" I'll turn it to 3.435" , this is the hole I need for the sleeve, rest of the way or maybe no more than an inch or so I'll, turn to 3/4", this will fit a 3/4 collet in My mill. I'll take this peice I've just made in the lathe, go to My mill and remove 49% of the part turned to
3.435 and cut a releif grove behind the leadin' edge, lookin at this part from the side it looks like a D , hence the name D reamer...I'll heat the forge up. heat the 01 till it loses Magnetic attracttion,get a few degrees more, quench in oil, place in the oven for several hours at 300 degrees and I'll have a tool than is piloted and will do a good job. Cuttin' the grove for the seal ? That is an easy one but it might be easier to silver brase the sleeve to the web, just to make it watertight

And that is where We are now....If any of You HANDS see any thing wrong with this please let Me Know.

Thanks
Wild Billl

Granted i am by know means the expert guru on that block here as i have never tryed to shell we say enlarge one but if i can get Cummings 855 sleeves into a MM U block and go from 335 cubes to 609 and still make it look factory and hold water and start easy . I would have to really sit down and study your block and do some figuring as to just how much of bore and just how much stroke ya could build into her . But if you are set on the 3 1/4 deal hey go for it just find a machinist that has the toys to play with . Now here is a thought on this if you are worried about taking .210 out of the bottom then don't take that much out and take some off the sleeves and a little off the block and make the sleeves a PRESS fit this should seal the water and if it dose not seal up 100 % then just put in some K & R block sealer run it with just water get it good and hot then drain it and let her sit for 24 hours then she is good to go . I did this on the M M U as we had to WELD the Cummings sleeves in and i end up with two pin hole that had a tiny little drip on the one block the K & R sealed it wright up and we ran antifreeze in it after that with no problems all the time we pulled it. Now if ya don't mind spending a few bucks here and ya want more like all of us do i would invest in a set of high altitude pistons then do some trick work on either head you decide to run . Send the cam out and at least have it rebuilt and as a new set of lifters maybe change the valve springs or shim them recurved the dist to limit the total advance curve to let say 27 to 29 degrees as this will help on the lower end degree in the cam and maybe a two degree retard but this ya have to play with as a retarded cam may not work well and ya may have to run it a couple degrees advanced .

Mr. Caldwell: Do you suppose IH engineers cast that block with .750 web between holes, because they believed it needed to be that thick?

Mr. MacKay....I should not have left the web size of the Super C out on My last post. I've only pulled one sleve, crank is still in so it's hard to get an exact measurement but the 354898 is just over .500....At this point I think all the IH engerneers did was open the bottom hole to make the Super C block. BUT...There may be a surprizs waitin'. I'll know soon enough, I hauled the S A block to 3 machine shops that were full of 8 and 10 cyl. cranks and blocks , all kind of borein' machines,etc., no body wanted to step out of their comfort zone so I'm putin'it on My mill table this mornin'. I've come up with an idea for a different tool, much simpler than the one I described, Guess I was just thinkin'out loud, if I had the delete button I'd wipe out that part. Mr. MacKay, You ask why. Just think Sir,if this can be done on a 9x48 mill with a tool I won't mind lendin' out, others may want to try this. Surely SCs being 2 row had to work harder that SAs and did it with thiner sleeves and a thiner bottom web, May be the 251069 was over built to start with.
At this point in time I think the hardest part of this job is gonna be BEARHUGGIN' that Super A block out of My Z71 and carryin' it to the Mill table

Thanks,
Wild Bill

Well Bill sounds like you have a bunch of NEW ERA machinist that have no imagination no spirit of adventure and they only want to work on the gofast stuff . Atleast over here i know a couple guys that would dive in with both feet just to say SEE WHAT WE DID . And doing it on the mill is just how the one guy use to do this . HE had and old cinnci horizontal that ya could set a 855 block on , now getting it there was another story.

Lets forget this formal stuff, you call me Hugh, I'll call you Bill: I have no problem with, nor do I lack any of the sense of adventure Vet mentions.

Where this old Scot draws the line is money. If your interseted, I know where there are a couple good 354898 R1 blocks in the $150. range. I'm 35 miles from Port Huron MI. Distance will be the killer.

Hugh....Money is exactly why I'm doin' this, this way. I've got a 251069 that has to be rebuilt from stem to stern, Parts and My labor were gonna run into BIG BUCKS...The old Man sold Me the 354898 with the front of the block broke for $50.00, his deal,I paid His price without JEWIN'. Everything in the 354898 is excellant, no ridge at all at the top of the sleeves, 240 head, So if everything goes in the 251069 and all I'm out is labor, a gasket set and sleeve seals I came out great, plus I got a few days more of schoolin', and due to the internet may have past on something that will help someone else. Helpin' others might buy Me a little redemption for a lifetime spent bein' Wild Bill...do You reckon? "Lord I feel like I'm winnin' again" Hadn't made as good time on this as I planed, Toolin,' measurein', I'll feel lucky if I finish the block by tomorrow...What the Hell, I had to be somewhere today if I was gonna be anywhere so I might as well been workin' on a Farmall engine as....??
Tractor Vet...I could see the fear in their eyes or maybe a combo of greed and fear...I did get two hilarious suggestions on How To....Those two shops better stick with "THE KNOWN" anythig else will throw them. I'm not knockin' them ,everybody has their place

Thanks
Wild Bill

Bill: There you go, that's the difference between a guy with the equipment to cut the hole larger, and one not so equipped. Thankfully we look at it differently and neither one of us are wrong.

I must admit I have on ocasion looked at machining equipment, however other projects lead me astray.