Super M pistons and sleeve in a regular M?

Hi everyone! I am planning on overhauling my M tractor this spring.

I was wondering if anyone has ever heard of the idea of putting a Super M (4 1/8") piston and sleeve set in a standard M (4")? I was looking at an old Tractor Supply catalog under sleeve sets and for the M sets it says "contact TSC for instructions on how to rebore your M to use the big 4 1/8 inch sleeve set".

Has anyone ever done this? Is it too expensive to be practical? Does anyone have the "directions" that TSC is talking about? Are there other considerations before doing something like this? Any advice is appreciated!

Take the bare block to a machine shop. They'll know how. It is NOT a do it yourself job.

Me and my dad went through our old '49 M a few years ago and we ended up doing the 4 1/8" bore. We ended up putting a 450 head on it being the original had 6 cracks, and numerous welds in it. The last time I dynoed the old girl, it was putting out around 66 to 67 horse on 87 octane/unleaded gas. If you want to make power without going the route of stroking an engine, doing work to the head and finding the highest compression piston is the best way to do it. Best of luck with your project!

I wouldnt really mess with it. There are overhaul kits you can buy without having to bore the old block. unless you want to bore it to get more power. but even at that u wont get much more power.

Its better if you would bore it out and get bigger pistons and run it in the block (no sleeves) my machine shop guy does not like to use sleeves and always recomends no sleeves

yes it will work fine. i do the boring at work for free. would be expensive to hire it done. i can sell you a super m block for $250 and you can sell your m block.

Thanks everyone for the advice. My M is a "working girl"--I use it to farm 160 acres of crops. Would I be better off just sticking with a piston set that doesn't require reboring? I'm sure the reboring won't be cheap.

If I went the oversize set, do I have to consider other things like whether the power train etc. can handle it?

Since it is a "working" tractor, just rebuild it with the 4" overbore kit. That way, when it wears out again in another 50 years, it can once again be rebuilt to brand new specs.

a little extra power won't hurt a thing. your gears are pretty much the same as the rear endof a 686. ih used this five speed for a long time. i can sell you a overhaul kit with pistons sleeves bearings and gaskets for $500 plus alittle for ups. not chinese junk.

a little extra power won't hurt a thing. your gears are pretty much the same as the rear endof a 686. ih used this five speed for a long time. i can sell you a overhaul kit with pistons sleeves bearings and gaskets for $500 plus alittle for ups. not chinese junk.

I am almost positive that 4 inch pistons are on a Super M. When you did the motor job in 1984, you installed a Super M engine kit. 4 1/18 inch pistons are on a 450. Jake.

If you have enough power to create wheel slippage
I would go with the 4.00" pistons. Hal
PS: You can get kits off this for forum for less than $400.00 with the stepped head pistons.

Correct. The original M pistons were 3 7/8", but you could upgrade to the 4" overbore when rebuilding. The Super M originally used 4" pistons, but could be upgraded to the 4 1/8" overbore.

Then that machine shop is the last place i would take any work . Sleeves are 100 times better then and engine with no sleeves and after 40 plus years of working on engines i think i know something.

Here is my take on this subject and take it for what it is worth. You have a stright old M , ya want to get as much out of it as ya can go with the S/M kit with either fire crater pistons or a dome piston then if ya want more then put a 400 head on it and put in a new cam and lifter , rebuild the governor have the dist. rebuilt and the new update kit if ya can still find one installed rebuild the carb and when done it should get ya around 55-60 hp. and if that ain't enough then get a bigger tractor.

I don't know. this machine shop is well known for building top Smoker Tractors and race cars that compete all over the country. Ask any auto mechanic in this area and thats where they tell you to go. i have had several things done there and never had a problem. He even calls you in to watch him work on it and shows/tells you what he is doing or going to do. There are no secrets.

And that is suppose to impress me ??? I was doing that stuff back in 1963 and lots count of all the engines be it a gasser or a diesel that i have machined built and ran either in comp or worked and yes many of mine have set records or made for a vary long pulling season for everybody else.

If you need a crankshaft for the project I have one just redone by Baker Machine in Des Moines. Rods 10thou and mains 20. The bill was 140 bucks and thats what I will sell it for.

You and Jason are talking about entirely different things. You are exactly right. The owner is wanting to use his tractor to farm with. He needs dependability such as easy and reliable starting as well as long life. Jason seems to be talking about a tractor used in pulling competetion. I doubt if the pulling tractors would last for one season and may not start at below freezing. Tractor vet, I admire your knowledge of red tractors. If I was farming 180 acres I would start looking for a more modern diesel for the heavy wotk.

people confuse automotive and small engine repair sleeves with tractor sleeves all the time. repair sleeves are definitely not designed for high output with their thin walls and mere glue holding them in place. tractor sleeves are, they have pretty thick walls and a hefty collar to hold them in place along with a block machined to keep the sleeve in place should the collar separate.

personally, IH dry sleeves make sense to me. you can have new combustion chambers many times before needing to discard the block, without a sleeve you might have a broken ring at 10, and have to go to 30 to clean up a score, then your block is too big for the next time. wet sleeves seemed scary at first due to coolant in oil potential, but the reliability is still high when you look at the high number of hours before a failure does occur.


karl f

Oh , now don't tell the one guy that i take care of his stable of two S/MTa's one of then he bought new in 54 a WD 45 Allis and a 52 8 N ford that was bought new and he farms 160 acres . Now they did buy a 1066 well his youngest son bought it and all we heard was that tractor is two big for this farm . Now a old M is a neat old tractor and they will still earn a days wages , But you are limited . There are a lot of guys that think it is neat to run old iron and sometimes it is fun. I made a good friend over and old S/M that was plum wore out and at the time i knew of him but not as a friend he came to me wanting to have me totally rebuild his S/M Told him that i could do that BUT the cost would be a lot more then he wanted to put into it , So i told him that i had this 706 gasser that was nice and all org. that i would sell him for 3250 bucks and would give him 650 on trade for his S/M . He took the deal and for several years the 706 ran like a swiss watch then the first problem came about it quiet charging the generator went outfixed that and a hdy leak happened and that was a rough repair one new o/ring . He and i became good friends and most of the equipment on his farm and also his brothers i have sold them and maintained . Most of the people around here run older tractors only the bigboys have the new stuff and bust there donkeys maken payments .IF ya know how to fix the old and know all the quarks ya can keep it going . I try my best to tell guys how to and what ya need to do with these tractors . over the years i have learned a bunch some from trial and error . I have learned for some of the best and kept on learning and believe me in my days of the mussel car day and my four wheeling days i have made many as shell we say SPARE PARTS and figured out how to make it better . Back in the GOOD OLD DAYS before Summit and Jeggs if you wanted to go fast ya had to BUILD it yourself and i sure did my share of it i learned to built carbs that would work better and how to trick out distand that is a lost art and my dist and carbs work a lot better then someone elesthat clams his are the best just ask my account he haad to learn the hard way thru his check book then asked me if i could make it go . Made beleiver out of him in less then five hours at the strob and at the bench. WHat i am good at i am vary good and when i do not know i'll tell ya stright up

Ms are dry sleeves. The 4" bore is about 1/16" thick. The cylinder wall is maybe 1/4" thick cas as part of the block. Good info, though, for an ABC 100 340 series smaller IH engine. JimN