Stuck BN's - Update #1

Hello All.

I figured I would start a new thread for those of you following on the old style forum so it pops up to the top, rather than build on the old one. For those on the new style, sorry if Im making too many different topics.

It rained most of today, so I didnt get a chance to work on the tractors (still parked outside). I did get to rebuild a starter switch that was grounded out on itself, and built a little electrolysis rig in the basement to clean up the switch housing.

Anyway, I went out in the late afternoon and drained the oil to see what I had. Well, about a pint, pint and a half of antifreeze drained out, before all the rest of some very nasty looking oil. Not a good sign.

At that point, I figured I would tear into the head. Now, when I pulled the plugs, they were in there hand tight, which made me wonder. I pulled the valve cover, and ALL of the valves were closed. I have NO idea what this really means, or why that was the case. I popped the rocker train off, and started on the head. I figured the bolts would be a real tough thing to get off, but they barely took any pressure to turn off.

After I pulled the head, its pretty clear to see that there was some cross over between a few of the cylinders and what I believe is the water jacket and the oil passages near the push rods. It looks like there is also a hairline crack in the block adjacent to one of the cylinders, but it was getting dark and I couldnt tell where it went.

I have the head inside and Im going to try to go clean it up some to see what else I might find. Tomorrow Ill get the water out of the cylinders and fill them with ATF or some marvel mystery oil.

I guess Im just wondering what should my next step be? Why would all of the valves be closed? What cracks are OK in the block ( I know none would be ideal) and what ones mean its really time to just cash it in on this machine?

Sorry for the long post, but information is much appreciated. If you would rather e-mail, its clarkbug1 at yahoo dot com .

Thanks in advance!

I'm thinking now and I can't think of any point in the normal 4-cylinder 4-stroke cycle where all 8 valves would be completely closed.

Since everything else was loose, could the rocker arm shaft be loose too?

The only other thing I could think of is a missing cam shaft.

Not to sound like a wise guy, but BE CAREFUL with electrolysis in a confined space or building. Electrolysis generates gaseous hydrogen and oxygen and, given the right concentration and a small spark, it will explode. Neither hydrogen nor oxygen smell! Make sure you have your electrolysis vat in a WELL ventilated area. I had it outside under a piece of sheet metal supported by three posts, just to prevent too much rain getting in. The electric power source (charger) was inside. BTW I love electrolysis and had very good results.

Did it have any push rods? Without push rods all the valves would be closed. Sounds like someone has been inside that engine before and gave up. I think you had better start shopping for sleeves and pistons as well. You do not have to pull the engine to do an overhaul. Take the rods loose from the crank and you can drive the pistons out.

All the valves closed where the push rods in place as they should have been?? If so maybe some one had taken the head off and then didn't do more then set it back on and if so you may have some one else s night mare on your hands and who knows what may have been done to it
Hobby farm

I should have mentioned that yes, all the push rods were in place in the engine, and none of them appear to be bent. The rocker shaft was in place and tightened down, but it appears as if all of the rockers were adjusted such that no matter the position, nothing was pushed down.

I have spent some time working to clean up the head, and now have the exhaust manifold off of it, and the gasket surfaces mostly cleaned up. The exhaust ports were all plugged with what looks like rusted metal flakes and a wasps nest.

My thought might be that the head was pulled to try and get things turned over, and when that didnt happen they bolted things back up to try again.

So it might be a nightmare, but Im the one living it at this point, so I guess I need to know where to go from here. Im still thinking of soaking the pistons to see if they will free up, but what else do I need to check at this point? Is it time to pull the pan and look there? What would I look for down there? I havent ever had to tear into an engine to this extent, so Im just looking for the next path to go down.

I was thinking I would take the head to a machine shop to get it fluxed and see if they can true it, and maybe get a valve grind. Im guessing the valves have to be out of the head for this, correct?

Well if you want to talk to me one on one just go to my web site and you can fine my phone number there feel free to call me. That said there are a number of wys to maybe free it up. ATF and a gas mix and then light it up some times works. As for the rust and wasp nests BTDT on more then one and it can be painful to get one fired up that has that problem. Some how that stuff gets hot fast and it always seems to hit me on the head where the hair no longer grows. LOL
Hobby farm

Were all the adjusters tight On the rocker arms? Maybe somebody loosened them all up. Just a thought. Bernie Steffen

I think no matter where it stops, there will be one ex and one in valve open. Were there 2 adjusters backed out more than the rest? Whoever quit working on it may have closed the valves to keep out moisture and never got back to it. Or there is no cam in it.

Thanks for the offer Old. If I get to that point, Ill make sure to look ya up.

Ill have to check the adjusters to see where things are. My guess is that someone did close them, since most seem to be out and just a few are moved. Last I knew you adjusted the valves by starting with #1 at TDC and then move through them one by one, right?

If I do have any cracks in the block, are there any that are OK, or are all of them a reason to scrap the block?

the push rods may have been loosened so as to do a pressure leak-down test on the engine without haveing to turn it over. wherer ya located ?? i`m in s.e.pa.

I Think the lifters are all rusted into their bores. The result is that they all stay in their raised position and the valves all seem to be pushed at once. I have seen it on two engines, one was a SC, with that same series of block. I took a week of tinkering and rotation with PBblaster to free them, and then remove and clean the bores while keeping them in order. It was worth it. But if it is cracked, it is for sure a call that needs to be made. These engines are common enough to find a good one rather than make a patch job. JimN

Thats a good thought.

I was thinking that perhaps someone popped the head off to see why it was stuck, saw the water in the cylinders, and figured it was time to button it up without fixing. So, to put everything back in there, they just loosened the rocker arms up to get it to bolt in and said enough was enough.

Im located in Arlington, VA most of the time, but my family farm, the tractors, and true home (and where I am these next few weeks) is upstate NY, near Bennington VT.

Another question to go along with this whole saga... Will the head from a Super A or Super C work with this engine?

A NIGHTMARE??? Come on....A little 4 cyl Farmall engine stuck, cracked, or what ever ain't a nightmare, it ain't even a bad dream.... compared to some things. Blocks for these engines arn't hard to find, if the engine needs everything, I'd think You could get it runnin' for less than a $750.. AND THE SCHOOLIN' WILL BE WORTH THE MONEY
Wild Bill

Well I dont think its much of a nightmare, at least not yet....

I filled the cylinders with ATF, and am letting them soak right now. I havent pulled the drain on the other oil pan yet to see whats in there, but I hope to do that here in a little bit.

Its for sure that the one BN filled with water has a cracked block, but it looks like the crack goes between two of the water jackets, and potentially up to one of the sleeves. Nothing is through to the outside as of yet, so will this type of cracking be a big deal?

Im not opposed to finding a new block for this, but at the same time I would hate to not re-use something that is salvageable.

Thanks again!