300 starting Problem

Anonymous-0 · Dec 16, 2008

I can't get my 300 to crank over very well.
I've tried: New starter, New cables from the battery to starter, cleaned and polished all contact areas, Added a dedicated ground wire from the battery to the starter, new battery (twice). The tractor will not crank past TDC.
Can anyone help me?

GordoSD · Dec 16, 2008

Where did you get the new cable from the battery to starter? Is it a small red cable from the auto parts store? What about the main grond cable, what size is that?
Is the start switch getting hot when you try to crank the engine?

Gordo

caterpillar guy · Dec 16, 2008

Give us some more info. Is this a new rebuild or no? Is this a new starter if not it could be the bushings are bad causing it to drag requiering more draw on the battery or woren brushes and dirty connections to the brushes or commutater.

Mike Farmer · Dec 16, 2008

Will it crank right over by hand? MTF

Anonymous-0 · Dec 16, 2008

I can pull it over by hand, cranking the fan. Compression is actually low on this tractor, about 80-90psi.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 16, 2008

Its a J&N Starter, I believe (someone got it for me.) The starter turns free when spun by hand. The tractor acts the same with the old and the new starter. Brushes are new and starter is very clean inside and out.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 16, 2008

I made the negative cable, the tractor is positive ground. It is single o copper strand wire with crimped on connections. I then heat shrunk the ends to further protect them. The Positive cable was purchased from NAPA. It is their standard grounding cable very near identical to the one that I removed.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 16, 2008

red. i had a similiar problem with an H.
i had the starter off several times and every time i had it tested, they said it was good.

well it tested good on the bench but under a load, it was no good.

if the 300 starter is like the H there are soldered lugs inside the starter and they are easy to miss when checking the starter.

what happens is the lugs get hot and will boil out the lead. to look at it, they look like a good connection, but it isnt.

even in a rebuilt starter the lugs can be overlooked.

well just my thoughts on the matter.
good luck and dont give up.

J in Pa

El Toro · Dec 16, 2008

If this tractor is still 6 volt you need 00 battery cables with soldered spades. Hal

Anonymous-0 · Dec 16, 2008

That sounds like a very good thing to check. I will tonight and let you know. I know the old starter has been hot a few times.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 16, 2008

One more thing. I asssume the lugs you are referring to are the 4 that are connected to the brushes???

dougie94 · Dec 16, 2008

el toro is right!00 cables makes all the difference

Anonymous-0 · Dec 16, 2008

Can I test this by adding an additional 0 wire external, clamp it to the battery and the starter?

Janicholson · Dec 16, 2008

Do the followion test. Make sure the timing is at TDC when the points break (static timing) then=--- Put your good battery next to the starter on a table or stand. Run short cables from it to the solenoid. Start it. I bet it roars to life. The distance to the starter drops too much voltage. Use OOga JimN

Anonymous-0 · Dec 16, 2008

This is why I replaced the battery cables. I measured it and was getting about .5 volt loss on the power side and .25 loss on the common side. After replacing both cables, the voltage loss is down to .25 volts on both the power and common side of the battery.

Also, the ignition was replaced about 1 year ago with electronic ignition because the shaft in the distributor was getting so loose that I could not set the points propperly, no points to break. The tractor runs fine once started, I just can't get it to crank over to start.

Janicholson · Dec 16, 2008

The voltage drop must be measured at the starter terminal that goes into the starter from the solenoid, with the other lead to ground at the starter. Run the starter and check the voltage. While cranking. (I bet it is less then 4.5 or so volts) that is a load related drop in Battery volts applied top the starter motor. Non load tests would be about that number on a piece of 14 ga wire at that distance. Best of luck, JimN

Brownie 450 · Dec 16, 2008

Use a heavy jumper cable to add more current carrying capacity when testing for increased cable size.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 16, 2008

red in reply to the lugs, i just forget how many are in there but check them all.

as i recall there seems to be one big one for something. its been awhile since i had one apart.
again, good luck.

J in Pa

GordoSD · Dec 16, 2008

Does that starter have the switch mounted on top of it? Did you replace that switch? If you did your problems may be there. The replacement switches have a much thinner base. If you use the original screws they will protrude through the starter case and keep it from spinning properly.
I had that problem. Solved it by putting two small flat washrs on the screws and then installing them.

Gordo

Mike Farmer · Dec 16, 2008

Will it start if you pull it. MTF

Anonymous-0 · Dec 16, 2008

The tractor will start if pulled. I was starting it with a 12 volt battery that I had sitting next to it and a set of jumper cables. I was able to get it to roll over like that, but was always scarred I would eventually hurt the electronic ingnition that I installed on it. Plus it is a pain in the butt to do that all the time as I use this tractor almost daily on the farm.

tractorsam · Dec 16, 2008

How's your timing? I worked on a Massey Pacer a while back that had had everything done to the cranking system but still wouldn't roll over well and often wouldn't start. It ran beautifuly and started fine on the hand crank. After much trial and error I discovered that his distributor timing was a hair too far advanced and caused it to fire just before TDC and would slow down the engine cranking to the point where it wouldn't start. Just a thought, Sam

riverbend · Dec 16, 2008

How long has this been happening ? All summer or only since it has gotten cold ? If it only since it has been cold try pushing in the clutch before you try starting it.

Greg

LMack · Dec 16, 2008

I had the same problem with a 200. I gather that your battery is 6-volt like mine. Battery cables for a 6-volt system have to be the heavy duty kind and can not be the light weight ones normally used on a 12-volt system. Just replacing the cable on my 200 I was able to get it to spin. They should be no less than 1 gage. The cable ends should be sorder welded to the wire. LMack

El Toro · Dec 17, 2008

Heavy welding cable make very good battery cables.
Only make them as long as needed and solder the
ends. You can use a propane torch, solder and some flux. Hal

boomer22 · Dec 17, 2008

How do you keep the wire covering from melting away when you solder these ends on?

Anonymous-0 · Dec 17, 2008

I used crimp on connections, no soldering. However, I have soldered on ends before with a propane torch. Direct the heat onto the connection, keep it off the wire. Eventually it will get hot enough to solder properly. When I am done, I use a piece of heat shrink tubing, use the torch to shrink it, to cover the joint. This tubing can be purchased at NAPA or most any automotive store.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 17, 2008

I checked this out last night. There was only one big one, where the power enters the motor fromt the solonoid switch. All the solder appeared to be in order. All connections were made properly, tested with a screw driver and pryed on them a bit. All other connections seemed to be made internal as well. I used an Ohm meter and only was getting about 450 amps. The battery is rated for 1000CC Amps. The battery is making voltage, but I am beginning to wonder is it is capable of outputing the Amperage needed. I will get a new battery and test this theory soon.

300 starting Problem

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