- Thread starter BDC
- Start date
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
BDC: The grill with horizontal bars was used from 1958 until mid 1963. It was the styling of the era and that same styling was used on 240, 340, 460 and 560.
The grill changed to the small holes in 1963 being the same styling as 404, 504, 606, 706 and 806. Why IH didn't change the model number on the 140 is a qood question. I guess a good answer would be 140 did not change mechanically, however there were significant changes in the larger models.
The grill changed to the small holes in 1963 being the same styling as 404, 504, 606, 706 and 806. Why IH didn't change the model number on the 140 is a qood question. I guess a good answer would be 140 did not change mechanically, however there were significant changes in the larger models.
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
BDC: I didn't include these earlier, as I would have had to disturb a sleeping grandson. He was best left sleeping at 5AM.
Head bolt torque before engine serial number 65001 is 65 ft-lbs and after that serial number 80-90 ft-lbs. I'd tend to go around 75 ft-lbs with the early ones. I did that with my SA, with much better results.
Rod bolt are 45 ft-lbs.
Head bolt torque before engine serial number 65001 is 65 ft-lbs and after that serial number 80-90 ft-lbs. I'd tend to go around 75 ft-lbs with the early ones. I did that with my SA, with much better results.
Rod bolt are 45 ft-lbs.
Serials on 140 started at 501 so it would have to be be 3750 which is a 1959. However, the in/out hole design is the 1963 and later design. I would guess that your grill is not original to your tractor. If you replace it, let me know--I'm looking to replace the damaged one on my 1966.
[THANK YOU FOR THE TORQUE INFO AND THE GRILL INFO. IF MY SERIAL NIMBER IS 8750 J WHAT YEAR WOULD THAT BE. WOULD THAT MAKE IT THE 63 YEAR TO BE THE CORRECT GRILL. IT LOOKS LIKE ITS ALL ORIGINAL. I WAS HOPPING TO SEE A PICTURE OF ONE TO SEE THERE THE LABLES ,DECALS AND BADGES GO. THANK YOU BC
quote="TheDurk"](quoted from post at 11:05:58 12/06/08)
Serials on 140 started at 501 so it would have to be be 3750 which is a 1959. However, the in/out hole design is the 1963 and later design. I would guess that your grill is not original to your tractor. If you replace it, let me know--I'm looking to replace the damaged one on my 1966.[/quote]
quote="TheDurk"](quoted from post at 11:05:58 12/06/08)
Serials on 140 started at 501 so it would have to be be 3750 which is a 1959. However, the in/out hole design is the 1963 and later design. I would guess that your grill is not original to your tractor. If you replace it, let me know--I'm looking to replace the damaged one on my 1966.[/quote]
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
BDC: The grill changed about mid 1963 and the serial number would have been around 20,000. I have the exact serial number recorded some where, just can't lay my hands on it right now.
As far as I'm concerned the way to describe these, the 58 to 63 have horizontal cross members, while the later ones have vertical formation lines.
I think you mentioned at one point serial tag is missing, if that is so how are you coming up with these serial numbers. 140 tractor serial numbers are no where near the engine serial numbers. The first one built tractor number 501 had engine number 65046, in 1962 tractor number 17536 had engine number 98036, 1963 tractor number 22157 had engine number 102230 and in 1967 tractor number 34818 had engine number 114723. Are the FARMALL badges on side of tractor chrome plated or adhesive?
What do the casting date codes tell you? Block part number on an early 140 should be 367825 R1, check that out. The reason I ask all this, seems like more than a few items on this tractor are not original.
As far as I'm concerned the way to describe these, the 58 to 63 have horizontal cross members, while the later ones have vertical formation lines.
I think you mentioned at one point serial tag is missing, if that is so how are you coming up with these serial numbers. 140 tractor serial numbers are no where near the engine serial numbers. The first one built tractor number 501 had engine number 65046, in 1962 tractor number 17536 had engine number 98036, 1963 tractor number 22157 had engine number 102230 and in 1967 tractor number 34818 had engine number 114723. Are the FARMALL badges on side of tractor chrome plated or adhesive?
What do the casting date codes tell you? Block part number on an early 140 should be 367825 R1, check that out. The reason I ask all this, seems like more than a few items on this tractor are not original.
8750 would only get you to 1960 (Click on 'Serial Numbers' under 'Research & Info' in the column to your left and you can see for yourself.) The other kind of grill with the horizontal bars is listed on the CaseIH web site for serial numbers 501 to 23300. So yours should be above 23300 if it was born with that grill. Is there possibly a faded digit between the 37 and the 50 that would make it 37?50 ? That would be a 1968.
EDIT: I hadn't seen Hugh's post when I typed mine; I didn't know you didn't have a serial tag--but as far as I know, that trailing "J" (indicating Rockford clutch) is a sort of unique to serial numbers; you would not find that on a casting. So, I will echo the master, where DID you get that number? And where did you get 1959 as a year? This would help us figure out which is correct.
EDIT: I hadn't seen Hugh's post when I typed mine; I didn't know you didn't have a serial tag--but as far as I know, that trailing "J" (indicating Rockford clutch) is a sort of unique to serial numbers; you would not find that on a casting. So, I will echo the master, where DID you get that number? And where did you get 1959 as a year? This would help us figure out which is correct.
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
Durk: The serial number 23300 is questionable. We had this discussion at YT several years ago. I forget the particulars however it seems that did not happen at exactly 23300. I also remember a group of tractors with new type grill, then a later group with old grill. It seemed as though IH started using the new type grill, then discovered they had a stock of old grills.
It's in the archives somewhere, I can't remember the particulars, but I was satisfied there are 140s out there with new grill and serial numbers as low as 22000.
My 140 is serial number 22157, I've had the front sheet metal, rad and water pump off. During this procedure I was looking for evidence of the grill being changed. I am satisfied this tractor came from factory as it is. In that earlier discussion there was a guy with serial number lower than mine by less than 100. He to was satisfied he had the original grill.
It's in the archives somewhere, I can't remember the particulars, but I was satisfied there are 140s out there with new grill and serial numbers as low as 22000.
My 140 is serial number 22157, I've had the front sheet metal, rad and water pump off. During this procedure I was looking for evidence of the grill being changed. I am satisfied this tractor came from factory as it is. In that earlier discussion there was a guy with serial number lower than mine by less than 100. He to was satisfied he had the original grill.
HI I LOOKED AT THE 60 PICTURE AND IT LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE MINE BUT I HAVE SMALLER BACK TIRES AND I DO NOT HAVE THE WHITE TRIM ON MY GRILL. I CANNOT SEE ANY EVIDENCE WHERE ANYTHING WAS TAKEN OFF ALL LOOKS ORIGINAL. I HAVE A SERIAL # TAG ON THE CLUTCH HOUSING AND THERE IS NO BLACK ON IT ONLY STAMPED NUMBERS 3 OR 8 7 50 AND A J . I DO HAVE THE WHITE SEAT LIKE IN THE PICTURES .I HAVE SEEN OTHERS WITH A BLACK SEAT LIKE THAT BUT NO OTHER ONE WITH A WHITE SEAT LIKE MINE. THE SEAT LOOKS ORIGINAL. I HAVE SEVERAL ATTACHMENTS WITH THE FAST HITICH TYPE HITCH. THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HELP. WHERE IS THE BEST PLACE TO PURCHASE A RING SET. THANKS AGAIN AND GOD VBLESS
(quoted from post at 16:40:32 12/06/08)
Here is a 1960 Farmall 140:
BDC:I find it hard to believe you have original seat cushions. I have a lightly used 1966 always garaged indoors and I am on my third set of cushions. Mine was born silver from the factory and then became black back in the 70's and I recently changed again.
On the grill, you would never see that trim with the horizontal bars (old style) with the grill with small holes and in/out profile you describe above. Unless there was a bizarre mixing around the time of the changeover. I am not sure you could put the new grill into the old cowl with the horizontal bars. I would find the engine block number as Hugh suggests and nail down your year and go from there.
EDIT:Well, the radiator cover is the same in both styles--so you may just have the new grill without the trim--I take back what I said above. I do think you could not use the trim with the grill you have now, as the old style had an upper and a lower grill insert.
On the grill, you would never see that trim with the horizontal bars (old style) with the grill with small holes and in/out profile you describe above. Unless there was a bizarre mixing around the time of the changeover. I am not sure you could put the new grill into the old cowl with the horizontal bars. I would find the engine block number as Hugh suggests and nail down your year and go from there.
EDIT:Well, the radiator cover is the same in both styles--so you may just have the new grill without the trim--I take back what I said above. I do think you could not use the trim with the grill you have now, as the old style had an upper and a lower grill insert.
Jim Becker
Well-known Member
Here is a format that works. You also had a typo, ; where you needed :
Hit the "quote" button in the upper right of this post to see what it looks like in raw form. (Then use your back button to avoid doing an unneeded post.)
Hit the "quote" button in the upper right of this post to see what it looks like in raw form. (Then use your back button to avoid doing an unneeded post.)
(quoted from post at 21:01:29 12/06/08) Here is a format that works. You also had a typo, ; where you needed :
Hit the "quote" button in the upper right of this post to see what it looks like in raw form. (Then use your back button to avoid doing an unneeded post.)
Well, it won't be an unneeded post if I use it to say "Thank you". The semi-colon was not a typo--although it IS wrong--it is in the URL for that picture. I have been trying to figure out why. This one, with the newer grill on a 1965 has it,too--but now you have taught me how to edit the URL down so that it works....
Wesley Stephens
Member
Does anyone know of a source for the nosepiece for an early 140?
[HI IN PULLING THE PISTON TO UNSTICK MY MOTOR ON MY 140 THE PISTONS WERE 3 IN AND HAD A TOTAL OF 3 RINGS PER PISTON 2 COMPRESSION AND I OIL. I LOOKED AT REPLACEMENT AND COULD ONLY FIND 4 RING SETS. WHAT CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THIS. WOULD MY PISTONS BE ORIGINAL AND WHERE WOULD I GET THE ORIGINAL 3 RIG SET. ALSO I WOULD LIKE TO POST A PICTURE OG MY TRACTOR TO GET THOUGHTS ON THE YEAR I'M PRETTY SURE THE SERIAL NUMBER IS 3750 J THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HELP BRETT
HI quote="Hugh MacKay"](quoted from post at 15:33:33 12/06/08) BDC: The grill changed about mid 1963 and the serial number would have been around 20,000. I have the exact serial number recorded some where, just can't lay my hands on it right now.
As far as I'm concerned the way to describe these, the 58 to 63 have horizontal cross members, while the later ones have vertical formation lines.
I think you mentioned at one point serial tag is missing, if that is so how are you coming up with these serial numbers. 140 tractor serial numbers are no where near the engine serial numbers. The first one built tractor number 501 had engine number 65046, in 1962 tractor number 17536 had engine number 98036, 1963 tractor number 22157 had engine number 102230 and in 1967 tractor number 34818 had engine number 114723. Are the FARMALL badges on side of tractor chrome plated or adhesive?
What do the casting date codes tell you? Block part number on an early 140 should be 367825 R1, check that out. The reason I ask all this, seems like more than a few items on this tractor are not original.[/quote]
HI quote="Hugh MacKay"](quoted from post at 15:33:33 12/06/08) BDC: The grill changed about mid 1963 and the serial number would have been around 20,000. I have the exact serial number recorded some where, just can't lay my hands on it right now.
As far as I'm concerned the way to describe these, the 58 to 63 have horizontal cross members, while the later ones have vertical formation lines.
I think you mentioned at one point serial tag is missing, if that is so how are you coming up with these serial numbers. 140 tractor serial numbers are no where near the engine serial numbers. The first one built tractor number 501 had engine number 65046, in 1962 tractor number 17536 had engine number 98036, 1963 tractor number 22157 had engine number 102230 and in 1967 tractor number 34818 had engine number 114723. Are the FARMALL badges on side of tractor chrome plated or adhesive?
What do the casting date codes tell you? Block part number on an early 140 should be 367825 R1, check that out. The reason I ask all this, seems like more than a few items on this tractor are not original.[/quote]
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
BDC: Now your throwing a real kink in the question. You can not buy a 3" piston and sleeve kit for a 140. In fact you can not buy a 3" piston and sleeve kit for a 130. Those were never made for either of those blocks.
The last 3" kit was used in the Super A on block part number 354898 R1. Super C, 100 and 200 used that same block, thus you could install that last 3" kit in any of those, however no one ever did, as there were 3", 3-1/8" and 3-1/4" kits for block number 354898 R1 or R2
You have not confirmed your 140 has block part number 367825 R1, nor have you told us which block part number your 140 has. Given what you have told us I can only assume your 140 has a Super A engine. I suspected right from the beginning this was not an original tractor. This is probably why you can't match rings up either, your asking for rings for the wrong engine.
When trying to order engine parts; bottom end go with block part number, top end got with head part number. If the partsman doesn't undersatnd that, you are dealing with the wrong partsman. Remember IH didn't cast those part numbers on block as ornaments.
The last 3" kit was used in the Super A on block part number 354898 R1. Super C, 100 and 200 used that same block, thus you could install that last 3" kit in any of those, however no one ever did, as there were 3", 3-1/8" and 3-1/4" kits for block number 354898 R1 or R2
You have not confirmed your 140 has block part number 367825 R1, nor have you told us which block part number your 140 has. Given what you have told us I can only assume your 140 has a Super A engine. I suspected right from the beginning this was not an original tractor. This is probably why you can't match rings up either, your asking for rings for the wrong engine.
When trying to order engine parts; bottom end go with block part number, top end got with head part number. If the partsman doesn't undersatnd that, you are dealing with the wrong partsman. Remember IH didn't cast those part numbers on block as ornaments.
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
Brett: The block part number is partially hidden behind oil filter, cast in place, about inch high digits, on SA, 100, 130 and 140 always 6 numbers followed by R1, R2 or R3.
On the rings, it's been awhile since I had one apart, I just don't try to remember. Always use my part numbers.
On the rings, it's been awhile since I had one apart, I just don't try to remember. Always use my part numbers.
[I POSTED A PICT URE OF MINE IN THE IDENTIFY SECTION IS HAS THE ? 140 thank you brett
quote="TheDurk"](quoted from post at 17:31:04 12/06/08) One more try at 1960 140:
<img src="http;//photos.yesterdaystractors.com/gallery/tphotos/a103590.jpg">
OKAY--someone please tell me what I am doing wrong with this code. Thanks[/quote]
quote="TheDurk"](quoted from post at 17:31:04 12/06/08) One more try at 1960 140:
<img src="http;//photos.yesterdaystractors.com/gallery/tphotos/a103590.jpg">
OKAY--someone please tell me what I am doing wrong with this code. Thanks[/quote]
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
Brett: A 140 block part number should read 367825 R1 or 367825 R2. Just maybe some of them ended in R3 or even just R. There should always be a blank between the 6 digit number and R.
If we agree that your block part number is 367825 R whatever then there is no way tou have 3" pistons and sleeves. The only kit ever made for that block is 3-1/8" piston and sleeve.
I thought you ironed out that serial number about 6 posts ago. I must admit, I've never seen serial numbers on a 140 with blanks other than between number and the J. If your tractor has a 4 digit serial number, excluding the J, it almost has to be a 1958, 1959 or a 1960. At this point, that is as far as I'm prepared to go. Getting info from you has been much like pulling hen's teeth.
If we agree that your block part number is 367825 R whatever then there is no way tou have 3" pistons and sleeves. The only kit ever made for that block is 3-1/8" piston and sleeve.
I thought you ironed out that serial number about 6 posts ago. I must admit, I've never seen serial numbers on a 140 with blanks other than between number and the J. If your tractor has a 4 digit serial number, excluding the J, it almost has to be a 1958, 1959 or a 1960. At this point, that is as far as I'm prepared to go. Getting info from you has been much like pulling hen's teeth.
SORRY FOR THAT. JUST WHEN I THINK I HAVE THE ANSWER SOMTHING ELSE COMES UP THAT DISPUTES IT. I'M NOT VERY COMPUTER LITERATE. SORRY. I WILL TRY TO TELL EVERYTRHING I CAN AT ONE TIME. THE SERIAL NUMBER THE BEST I CAN READ IT 3750 WITH A J FOLLOWING. THE CASTING NUMBER ON THE BLOCK IS 367825 R THE GRILL IS THE TINY HOLE TYPE WITH NO EVIDENCE OF THE HORIZONAL PIECES IN THE PICTURES YOU OR OTHERS SENT IN THE POST. THATS BEEN THE PROBLEM OTHERS SAID IT HAD TO BE A 63 OR NEWER. THE BORE IS 31/8 I WAS WRONG SORRY. I REALLY DON'T WANT TO BE A PAIN I JUST WOULD LIKE THE YEAR AND UNDERSTANDING ABOUT THE GRILL AND WHICH BADGE TO FIND TO REPLACE. THANK YOU AGAIN BRETT
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
Brett: I agree some of the advice you got was not very well expressed. I'll go through the whole thing for you.
Serial Number 3750 is a 1959 model and that number should have come from a tag on left side of clutch housing. You can search this yourself, under Research & Info at the left of this page click on Serial Numbers let your computer do it's thing, then click on International and Farmall again let the computer go to next and click on I-140 and F-140. That will produce a page with beginning serial numbers for each year the 140 was in production.
Then we have the letter J, nothing to do with serial number. It indicates the tractor was equipped with a Rockford clutch from the factory.
Then we have the post 1963 grill, you are truly a blessed man. The 1958-1963 grills were junk, always loose with a vibration. That same style grill was on first 140 and all 240, 340, 460, 560 and 660. By the time most of them were 10 years old, haywire was the fastener of choice. Believe me I know, I listened to a 560 grill vibrate for 11,000 hours. Should have sued IH for mental cruelty. Keep the grill you have.
Your block part number is 367825, all the R, R1, R2 or R3 do is indicate the casting run. I don't think there was ever R alone. Over the years I've looked at thousands of IH part numbers between 1953 and 1970, if it ended in R a number always followed. Check the block closely, someone may have done a grinding job. If you find no number following the R, don't worry about it, nothing will change.
On the item of ring count per piston. Over the years manufacturers probably made half dozen different piston-sleeve kits for that block. IH alone probably made 3. There is a chance some of them were 3 ring pistons and some were 4 ring pistons. Of that half dozen kits, probably only 2-3 of them exist today. This is all about volume and these tractors haven't been built for close to 30 years, and they are being used less every year.
Now, Will you kindly settle in and rebuild this tractor, we can't wait to see the finished product.
Serial Number 3750 is a 1959 model and that number should have come from a tag on left side of clutch housing. You can search this yourself, under Research & Info at the left of this page click on Serial Numbers let your computer do it's thing, then click on International and Farmall again let the computer go to next and click on I-140 and F-140. That will produce a page with beginning serial numbers for each year the 140 was in production.
Then we have the letter J, nothing to do with serial number. It indicates the tractor was equipped with a Rockford clutch from the factory.
Then we have the post 1963 grill, you are truly a blessed man. The 1958-1963 grills were junk, always loose with a vibration. That same style grill was on first 140 and all 240, 340, 460, 560 and 660. By the time most of them were 10 years old, haywire was the fastener of choice. Believe me I know, I listened to a 560 grill vibrate for 11,000 hours. Should have sued IH for mental cruelty. Keep the grill you have.
Your block part number is 367825, all the R, R1, R2 or R3 do is indicate the casting run. I don't think there was ever R alone. Over the years I've looked at thousands of IH part numbers between 1953 and 1970, if it ended in R a number always followed. Check the block closely, someone may have done a grinding job. If you find no number following the R, don't worry about it, nothing will change.
On the item of ring count per piston. Over the years manufacturers probably made half dozen different piston-sleeve kits for that block. IH alone probably made 3. There is a chance some of them were 3 ring pistons and some were 4 ring pistons. Of that half dozen kits, probably only 2-3 of them exist today. This is all about volume and these tractors haven't been built for close to 30 years, and they are being used less every year.
Now, Will you kindly settle in and rebuild this tractor, we can't wait to see the finished product.
NOW THAT I UNDERSTAND. THANK YOU FOR MAKING IT SIMPLE. I HAVE GOT IT TORN DOWN NOW AND SHOULD HAVE IT RESTORED BY SPRING. I ALSO HAVE A FARRO MOWER,A DUAL PLOW ,A DISCS,A BUSH HOG A PUSH BLADE AND A GRADER BLADE THAT NEEDS RESTORES AS WELL. I GOT IT ALL FOR 500.00 BUT ITS ALOT OF RESTORING. I JUST LOVE IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE HELP. BRETT WILL POST PICS WHEN FINISHED
Jim Becker
Well-known Member
From what I can see in your picture, your hood appears to have the raised name plates. As far as I know they were changed the same time the grille changed. You probably have the original hood and a replaced grille.
Mark Peters
Member
Jim, I think you`re right about that.My 1960 140 Hi Clear (thats mine in the photo you guys pasted)was the same way when I purchased it. Just by luck the guy I bought it from had another 140 with the correct 4 bar grill and we swapped grills. Hugh is probably right about the newer grills being better engineered to stay tight,not to mention much more plentiful than the early style,but I like the looks of the early grills better and on a restored tractor I like to have on `em what they came with.The old grills are very hard to find in decent shape, probably for the reasons Hugh mentioned.Otherwise the newer grills are just fine for a working tractor even if it isn`t "correct".
HI WELL I GOT MY RINGS AND FOUND THAT ALL WERE FROZEN TO THE PISTONS. I HAD 2 OF THE JUGS COME OUT ON ME. I CLEANED ALL SIDES WITH A RAG AND TAPED THEM BACK IN IN THE SAME SPOTS THEY WERE IN. MY QUESTION IS WHEN THE HEAD IS TORQUED DOWN WILL THES JUGS SEAT THEMSELVES WATER TIGHT OR SHOULD I DO SOMTHING ELSE TO MAKE THEM WATER TIGHT. THANK YOU BRETT
Similar threads
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.
Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy