574 starter want quit engaging after switch is released

i have a 574 thats about a 75 model , diesel that i bought new. if i turn the engine over when its cold (as in the first time cranking tht day - even in the summer) and i have to turn it over several times to make it crank then the starter locks up in the spinning trying-to crank mode. i have torn it apart and have replaced the bushing and started back up wit the rest of it. i happened to take a close look at the yoke that drives the starter bendix into place. the bendix is ok (per electrical shop guy who knows his stuff) the shaft isn't bent, the bushing were worn bad, the solenoid was put on new this summer and didn't help my problem any. the shop that i got the bushing from - russell bros in huntsville al - sold me a different spring that is stronger thanthe orginal ones that comes with the starter. i need to know if there is anything else i'm missing and on the yoke it is shaped different so that you could put it on 180 degrees out. i need to know if the strraight part of this yoke - where the bolt goes through that it pivots on - should face the back or front of the starter. i did a search on this problem and it was touched on briefly, but no explination was given as to why the bendix would return to netural position. the battery is very hot. when the starter locked on this las time it ran for 3 minutes at least without stoping. i let some of the smoke out of it. maybe it was to full. looks like it didn't burn anything up on the brushes or windings though. amy help apprecaited. em me and i'll send you my cell number or you send me yours if we need to talk one on one. thanks for your help.

Are you saying that the starter is turning--but the bendix [clutch] isn't engaging the ring gear on the flywheel?
Then is the starter continuing to run after the key is released? Or is the starter cranking the engine after the key is released? Thank you.

I am interested in seeing the replies to this problem. I have 2 older Versatile tractors that will pull this stunt about once a year. Evidently what is happening is that the contacts in the Solenoid weld themself together, causing the starter to continue to spin after the engine starts. I have always been able to stop this by tapping the solenoid with a hammer.On one tractor I went so far as to wire in a small red lite that lights up whenever the starter is turning.(Hearings not so good any more)

i am thinking if the starter is staying energized and continues to spin, you may have an electrical problem, not actually the starter. hook up a test light to the big battery cable at the starter, it should not light. then try and start it, the lamp will light, but when you release the starter button, the lamp should go out and the starter stop running. if the lamp is staying lit, the solenoid is not opening. as you already replaced the solenoid, try hooking the test lamp to the small wire coming from the starter button to the solenoid, the one that energizes the solenoid, do the same thing and see if it stays lit when the button is released and the starter continues to run. this will at least isolate a solenoid problem, or a wiring problem before the soleniod

the tractor cranks good after its cranked the first time that day. its only when i hold the starter on for a little while when its cold that it locks on and want quit spinning the engine over. the rest of the day its fine. i have had and do now have a lock out switch that you can turn a plastic key in and break the connection to the starter circuit by breaking the ground cable wire connection. if you give it a second to cool off normally it will let you go back and try recranking it. i had to put a front seal in the injector pump and have got the timing off a little bit and i need to reset that also. (any help on that problemn is apprecaited also. its been a while since i've tried setting that pump where you remove the side plate and line up the marks in there is the best i remember). i have ordered the yoke and am replacing the bushings in the starter. the bushing that i would call a mid shaft carrier bushing was worn out real bad. the starter also has been known to break the nose pieces off if you try cranking it and it doesn't start and you try to engage the key again before every thing stops spinning it will break the nose off the starter. i did put a streaight edge on the starter for as long a distance (about 5 inches) as i could and tried it in several places. i am putting new bushing in, new solenoid, and a new yoke. now if it doesn't acvt up i want know which thing fixed it. that will make me mad, but i sure don't want to take it on and off three or four times to find out. i do know that in the past if the battery wasn't real hot it would cause thsi problem, but with a new battery i still have the smae problem when it first cranked each day whether its a warm or cold or cold day. thanks for questions and inputs. if this post goes away before i find my problem i will repost. there's nothing i hate any worse than trying to help some body and never knowing what the problem was and if guys on these forums helped solve them or not. oh, yeah. i can do with out all caps too.

I have no experience with that particular starter but my first thought is to try to increase the force pressing the contacts together when they are closed.

With what you have said, I would suspect you are on the right track replacing the bushings. With bad bushings,the starter is going to draw more current & the main contacts are welding as Tooly said. The other possibility is that the Bendix is either gummed up on the starter shaft or is dry or rough on the shaft & won't retract from being engaged with the ring gear.
Possibility # 2 is that the Bendix is hanging up[clutch is locked up]. If this is the case, a new Bendix is probably in order.
Check for roughness on the starter shaft[helix].

thanks for note. if anything there was to much oily film in there on the inside of the starter all over. i know to just use a min8imum of high temperature grease on the bushing and none on the bendix drive. there was an oil leak in behind the flywheel and i replaced the rear main seal. i also have seen the time when the diesel fuel return lines leaked and got oil on the starter. this old tractor still looks good and i keep it in the dry year round, but it has a lot of hours on it. i use to cut and bale hay for the public. every thing ran until it fell down or it rained. i've run this tractor without a starter with the hot leaads just bolted togehter and parked in on any hill i could find and get it to roll down and crank. its been turned upside down and was still running when the driver finally got to where it was. it had thorown him off going down the highway and ran through a fence and up the side of a tree and flipped over. it threw him off before it got to the tree thank goodnes. did hurt him at all. i've had to haul it home and put it in a basement and put heaters under it to get it warm enough to where it would crank. it wouldn't even pull off it was so cold. i got it wrm and let it running while it was on the trailer and hauled it 30 miles to load round bales of hay with. it was so cold that i got off of a running 1086 ih and grabbed the exhaust manifold with my bare hands, while it was running like i said. snot would freeze so you didn't have to worry about your nose running. some times a man has got to do what a man has to do. i've pulled the down row behind a mule team on 76=5 acres of river bottom corn just to get it out. i've puled corn with a cotton pick sack just to get it out too. so when i say i've been there and done that i mean it. thanks for your help.

Hi John, you said that if you break the ground connection then the starter releases and stops spinning. So the problem would appear to be electrical caused by either the START position in the key switch staying connected or the starter solenoid contacts bonding to the disk on the end of the plunger. See following web site about Dodge Diesel trucks and starter solenoids:
http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/dodgetruck.html
I believe the basic problem is that the injection pump is timed to slow requiring the starter to crank the engine more to start and this causes the contacts in the solenoid to fuse to the plunger or the plunger overheats inside the solenoid and does not retract when the power is removed by releasing the START switch.

My brother did the same thing when he replaced the lip seal on the Bosch injection pump on his 454 (same engine but only 3cyl). He loosened the three cap screws on the timing gear without marking them first then realized he only needed to remove the big nut on the drive shaft. So after the repair he had to crank the engine about a minute before it would start in 70F weather. Cost him a starter overhaul as well.

I can scan and send you the pages from the I&T Shop Service manual for setting the static timing of the Bosch injection pump on the German D-239 engine.

JimB

Put a new solenoid on it

If you turn the key off then on does it stop doing it?
If you unplug the little wire from the solenoid does it stop doing it.
If so a key switch might fix it.
If it is in the mechanism, try some TriFlow dry PTFE film spray on the splenoid plunger, and moving parts. Welding together contacts are the result of excess amps, the starter may need bushings, JimN

You have replaced the solenoid, correct?

Assuming the new solenoid is good, there are only two other reasons why the starter continues to receive electricity after you release the button:

1. The button itself is sticking.

2. The relay that the button is activating is sticking (if equipped).

You got a nearly-rebuilt starter out of the deal, but you're barking up the wrong tree. This is an electrical problem, not a mechanical problem.

Check the starter button and all the wiring associated with it. If there is a relay in the path to the solenoid, check all its wiring as well.

thanks for all the inputs. if i use the switch that i have put in the ground cable from the battery to ground of course it all stops. thing is that if i go back a few seconds later it doesn"t kick in again until i turn the switch on. since i have a new selonoid i took the old one apart. the disk that makes contact between the two leads inside the selonoid was not fused to the contacts. there was evidence of some arching, but nothing burnt or stuck. the yoke that pushes the bendix into the flywheel is badly worn and the bolt hole in it that it pivots on was worn also to where it was egg shaped. i"ve ordered the yoke, 12 from ih, i will put on a new selonoid and new bushing in it. the mid shaft bearing was real bad as well as the to end bushings. with me replacing so much stuff at once and it fixes the problem i really want know what cured it. that would disappoint me. i wil let you"ll know when i find out something. any hints between now and then appreciated.

Those Delco starters will sometimes hold themselves engaged if the engine does not crank over fast enough so that compression pushing a piston down can release some of the starter load. When the starter stays under load the spring in the solenoid may not be strong enough to disengage the drive from the ring gear. This causes the drive to hold the plunger in the engaged position causing the starter to keep cranking. If you do not find any electrical problems this is most likely what you will find. This is much more common with eight cylinder engines than a four cylinder engine.

From your description it sounds like you are not getting enough cranking speed on the engine when you are trying to start it. Make sure your battery is in good shape and your cables and connections are good. It would be good to know how much draw you have when cranking. If everything checks out electrically excessive draw will indicate a mechanical problem with the engine.

I have run across some of those German engines that had such a minor seeping of antifreeze from the sleeve o-rings that the lost antifreeze was never noticed in the oil. A small amount of antifreeze in oil can cause a "sticksion" problem. The oil gets so sticky that it takes a great deal of force to start to turn the crankshaft but after only a partial revolution it frees up and turns almost normally. With the starter out, try turning the flywheel to see if it takes excessive force to start to rotate it.