stop control collars for hyd cylinder

Jerry Gilliam · Nov 9, 2008

I am asking a question here because of some of the best "make it work" folks I have ever seen come up with things that work. I have a front end loader on my 656. I use the twin remotes to operate the arms on one set and the bucket tilt for the other two. That keeps my remotes tied up for things like a hay baler(old 851 with hyd tie). Was wondering if someone had come up with a idea of keeping the front arm cylinders locked in an upward position while using your remotes for other things. I know they make those cylinder position collars. But was wondering if someone had another idea like pvc home made collars or ???????

Thanks

Jerry in Tennessee

too many interests · Nov 9, 2008

hi there
At home we use the same set up for our oliver 1850 for the loader. If we need a set of remotes for something we tilt the bucket all the way down so there is not pressure on the lines and unhook those remotes so we can still raise and lower the loader
hope this helps
chris

mkirsch · Nov 9, 2008

Jerry, unless you have an odd loader, the bucket cylinders extend to tilt the bucket forward. Limiting collars wouldn't do anything but keep you from rolling the bucket back all the way.

For them to work the way you intend, you would need to put the stop collars INSIDE the bucket tilt cylinders somehow.

All is not lost, though.

Simply roll the bucket all the way back, set it on the ground, and float the bucket control on the tractor. Now you can disconnect the bucket and tie the hoses back so they won't drag in the dirt.

Unless there is a major leak somewhere, the bucket will not move when you lift the loader. To reattach the bucket hydraulics, simply put the bucket back on the ground to relieve the pressure on the hoses.

Jerry Gilliam · Nov 9, 2008

Thanks for your reply. But my problem is that my baler has a hydraulic tie system and has to use one set of remotes for that and one set for operating the baler. That ties up both remotes when baling. I could install a joy stick but I hate too, as this is probably the only time I will need two sets of remotes is when baling. Thanks again for your reply

Jerry

mkirsch · Nov 9, 2008

Oh, sorry. I misread your original post.

Backhoes have "transport locks" that hold the loader up for maintenance or transporting on a short trailer where the loader hangs over the bed of the dump truck.

It's a simple u-shaped piece of steel that fits over the extended cylinder shaft and braces between the end of the cylinder tube and the base of the cylinder. I'd recommend you make a pair of these whatever length holds the loader at a reasonable transport height. Don't forget some way to prevent the locks from popping out. The same technique will work to disconnect the lift arm hydraulics as the bucket.

Jerry Gilliam · Nov 9, 2008

Thanks. I can set the bucket with a chain as the bucket has several chain hooks welded on the bucket and base lift arms. My trouble will be setting the lift arms to a certain height and holding them there while disconnected. I have to find a way to stop the long lift arms from retreating.

Thanks

Jerry

charles todd · Nov 9, 2008

I used to do the same on my Farmall 504 when baling. I would roll the bucket back and use that remote for the bale chamber door. I also have a new loader with tight cylinders, no bypassing or leaks. If your cylinder packings are seeping, the laoder will drift.

This is what I did to free up my remotes...

[b:dcee148129]ORIGINAL[/b:dcee148129]

[b:dcee148129]BETTER BUT NOT GREAT[/b:dcee148129]

[b:dcee148129]THE RIGHT WAY TO DO A LOADER[/b:dcee148129]

[b:dcee148129]PRINCE 3 SPOOL VALVE[/b:dcee148129]

[b:dcee148129]3/4" HOSE ROUTING TO AND FROM LOADER VALVE POWER BEYOND[/b:dcee148129]

[b:dcee148129]RETURN LINE FROM VALVE TO FILL PLUG[/b:dcee148129]

[b:dcee148129]SCHEMATIC OF MY POWER BEYOND SYSTEM[/b:dcee148129]

I forgot to detail the return to the fill plug. I have another that has that detail, but is plumbed differently.

[b:dcee148129]HERE IS THE ALTERNATE[/b:dcee148129]

This is the only way to go... They have priority selectors and multipliers, but there is no substitue for extra remotes. I bought a 3 spool valve, only using 2 right now. Later I may want to add a grapple, thumb, post hole digger, ect on the front.

Charles

charles todd · Nov 9, 2008

While I was writing my last post I see there have been some replies. If the loader leaks down with the lines disconnected and you do not want to add in a valve then there is only one solution. REPACK your cylinders, they are LEAKING. If the cylinders are tight, then they WILL NOT leak down. They would stay up indefinatly if there were no leaks or bypassing seals.

Good luck, Charles

Janicholson · Nov 9, 2008

Measure the diameter of the Cylinder ram on the lift cylinder. Lift the loader to the height you want to run it when baling. Measure the distance between the cylinder end where the ram comes out and the connector on the end of the ram. Purchase a piece of schedule 80 pipe that is twice the length of the extended ram distance from the measurement above. Have the pipe cut into two longways (a plasma torch is the best) Use 12" hardened Ubolts to clamp the halves together on the rams. The U bolts need to have a plate to pass through like a muffler clamp to be secure. Two clamps on each strut, near the ends. JimN

Jerry Gilliam · Nov 9, 2008

Thanks. I would hope the steel pipe does not somehow scar the cyl rod, but thinking about it, it should not really touch anything but the rod end coupler and the end of the cyl housing where the piston rod comes out. Thanks Jerry

charles todd · Nov 9, 2008

(quoted from post at 16:08:33 11/09/08) Thanks. I would hope the steel pipe does not somehow scar the cyl rod, but thinking about it, it should not really touch anything but the rod end coupler and the end of the cyl housing where the piston rod comes out. Thanks Jerry

Jerry, the pipe method will work. But. You have to remember that everytime you hit a bump it is magnified by the unsprung weight hanging at the end of the loader (boom and bucket). Everytime this happens the cylinder moves some, (magnified by leaking cylinders, if they did not leak you would not be asking this question) the clevis end is going to drive the sch 80 pipe down on the gland packing and eventualy causing gland failure. Not to mention the wear of the sch 80 pipe rubbing the CHROME CYLINDER ROD!

Jerry, take the time and a little cash to tear your cylinders down and repack the piston and glands. It may cost $100 or so to do this to both cylinders. It is fairly easy to do if you can get the info from the cylinder. If not take it to a hydraulic shop. Once fixed, unplug the cylinders and go bale.

I had mine unhooked for 3 days and baled a little over 200 bales last month. The loader never dropped. Because I had GOOD CYLINDERS. After I baled the hay is when I finished the loader valve that I posted pics of.

Fix your cylinders, ruining them with some cockimime rigging is not worth it in the long run... My career is an Industrial Maintenance Tech, I know a little about hydraulics... Trained by Eaton.

Good luck,
Charles

Janicholson · Nov 9, 2008

If worried about it, bond a piece of innertube to the inside of the pipe! JimN

Janicholson · Nov 9, 2008

Charles Todd's thought about crashing on/over bumps is reasonable. If you think it might be a problem, just use a short piece of 5/16" chain and a turn buckle on each side to arrest the possible upward motion. JimN

charles todd · Nov 9, 2008

Janicholson, I agree the sch 80 pipe is a good idea, do not get me wrong. I bought some sch 80 2" (2 3/8" OD) pipe last week. It was only about $100 a joint (21 ft). The local steel yard only charged me $17.00 to cut some other steel into pieces. By the time Jerry buys some sch 80 pipe, cuts it in half lengthwise, buys some muffler or worm clamps, some chain, turnbuckles, ect; he could buy some quad rings and packing glands to rebuild the cylinders.

Each to their own... Rebuild the cylinders or plumb in a valve dedicated to the loader. One is inexpensive and not time comsuming, the other requires more $$$ and time. Both are better than rigging up a device that will eventually trash the cylinders.

Just my $0.02 worth as they say...

Charles

gregk · Nov 9, 2008

I used to put dads loader up the way you are talking about by using a piece of angle iron about 2" by 2" and welding 2 tabs down from the sides so that when you look at the end of it it looks like a house. then at the bottom of the tabs I driled a hole in each one of them for a pin to keep the pieces from falling out if the loader bounced up. It works similar to the backhoe transport idea mentioned above

charles todd · Nov 9, 2008

On our backhoe we welded two 1/2" chain hooks to the boom and two pieces of 1/2" chain to the frame work. When transporting, we would hook the chains into the hooks the jocky the boom valve to tension the chain.

I suppose you could rig a chain setup by welding a chain to the top of the loader boom and a hook on the loader upright.

[b:b88a7fb789]DREW A DETAIL OF A CHECK CHAIN YOU COULD USE SINCE REBUILDING THE CYLINDERS IS NOT A VALID OPTION...[/b:b88a7fb789]

Good luck,
Charles

Jerry Gilliam · Nov 9, 2008

THANKS again for all your help. I knew I could rely on your experience in the field. All of you have given me some things to think about and I believe I will come out fine. I will rebuild my cylinders if they need be. And then take a long look at all these suggestions.

THANKS again to all

Jerry Gilliam
Tennessee

charles todd · Nov 9, 2008

Jerry, glad we could assist you with some hard learned field experience. If you can repack the cylinders, all your problems will probably go away when you unplug the hoses.

Charles

Allan in NE · Nov 10, 2008

Jerry,

How much field work do you have to do? Have never seen a loader yet that couldn't be yanked in 20 minutes.

Allan

Jerry Gilliam · Nov 10, 2008

Hey Allen

How are you? Hope OK. I am checking my cylinders to see if they leak down today. I have purchased a New Idea loader #504 and installed it on my 656. Works great. But is is not a quick attach but does have quick attach bucket. I want to keep my bucket on while baling for use in whatever may go wrong with a bale, etc. I was not aware that the lift would remain up if disconnected and still find that hard to believe. But Carl and others have said so and I have no reason to not believe them. I was thinking the heavy arms would need some assistance in staying up. Anyway all of you have been nice to help and Thanks

Jerry

Janicholson · Nov 10, 2008

Careful !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it was connected with screw on hose connectors and no quick disconnects, it will come crashing down and hurt something. If it has disconnects you are OK. JimN

Jerry Gilliam · Nov 11, 2008

MY MANY THANKS TO ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jerry Gilliam

stop control collars for hyd cylinder

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