Help needed with International 444

JBinNY · Sep 29, 2008

Hello,

My father bought an old INTERNATIONAL 444 (tractor) backhoe that he was going to use to dig around a house to repair the foundation. Unfortunately he got very sick and passed away before he had a chance to use it. I know very little about these machines and could use the help of some of you experts here at this forum.

Whoever had the machine before my father apparently modified the old 444 tractor by adding a front bucket loader and the hydraulic digging arm in the back.

Anyway, it was working properly when my dad passed away and my family decided to sell it since we really had no need for it anymore. I decided to prime/paint it, to make it look better so we could sell it more easily. I would move it from the shade to the sun to paint it each day. One day I couldn"t get it in gear. I didn"t know what was wrong so we called a relative that knew some things about heavy equipment. He messed with the clutch pedal (tried adjusting the rod length, etc) but it didn"t help. He really wasn"t sure what was wrong, but we were able to start it with it in gear and move it to where it"s parked now.

I"m guessing that the 444 will have to be pulled apart to see what"s going on with the clutch. We"re not sure if it"s worth the investment.

#1)This 444 runs on GAS. Not sure how much it would cost to get repaired. Is it worth repairing to re-sell or should we just sell it as is and hope for the best? What would you guys do???

#2) Not sure what year this model was made. Some numbers that we found on the engine block: C175 211C , 4727 R , 122CB [also H2670C on the bucket]
Can anyone help identify this?

#3) Even if this thing was running perfectly what is the general value? (Other than being primed, it looks pretty old, lots of welds, tire tread maybe 50% at best, just generally it"s seen better days).

Please help. THANKS!

-jb-

IH2444 · Sep 29, 2008

If the rest of the tractor is functional it would sure be worth fixing the clutch. that is if you have any use for it around the place. And probably be worth fixing even if you wanted to sell it.

Does your tractor have a hydraulic pump in front of and below the front grill ?

Also does it have a foot throttle on the right ?

The reason I am asking is that it might be a 2444 or 2444 , the industrial version of the 444.

the c175 marking on the block does not sound like a 444 engine which was a c143.

mkirsch · Sep 29, 2008

The tractor will be worth little more than scrap price without fixing the clutch.

The tractor will be worth signifigantly more in functioning condition. How much more? Not sure without more info on its condition, pictures, etc..

The problem here is that getting to the clutch will require a LOT more work than a bare tractor. Ideally, both the loader and backhoe will need to come off. You can do it with the backhoe on, it may be a hinderance, it may even be somewhat helpful for holding up the rear end, but if you need to move the tractor's rear end around for alignment, that big hulk of metal back there will make it impossible.

Unless you can find a semi-retired tractor mechanic with his own shop very close to you, hauling it and hiring the work done will likely cost more than what you'll get out of the tractor in the end.

Is it really the clutch? Can you shift the tractor when it's not running?

JBinNY · Sep 29, 2008

Hi IH2444,

Thanks for the quickly reply and comments!

You know I don"t remember it having a foot throttle pedal on the right (if I recall the throttle was up above the steering and was hand operated)... and not sure about the location of the hydraulic pump (but I think it"s in the back of the machine (maybe under or near the seat).

The machine is about an hour away from my home... I will be going there Friday, so I"ll check more closely and try to take some pictures too.

I did just find some important info (that I wrote down long ago that was on the machine):

A) Somewhere (on the tractor section) I found --> KEVAH KONNER, INC.
INTERNATIONAL TRUCKS AND TRACTORS
PINE BROOK, NY
CALDWELL 6-5100-5101

B)Also I found (on the hydraulic arm/backhoe section) --> WAIN-ROY
MODEL: WRL H2670 C (serial#)
BRITISH 754078
HUBBARDSTON, MA

Anyway, maybe this info could help identify it.
THANKS!!!

-jb-

IH2444 · Sep 29, 2008

I am not sure what you have is a 444. Perhaps they have added a PTO driven pump ?
That would be external or built into the backhoe.

JBinNY · Sep 29, 2008

Hi mkirsch,

Thanks for your reply!

YES, the tractor can be shifted into all of the gears when it is not running. Once it's running and you try to go from neutral to any gear it will just make that horrible grinding noise and will not go into gear. I didn't go too crazy trying to force it into gear once I heard the grinding.

Yeah, I realize this will be a big undertaking to fix. My dad also left us an ALLIS-CHALMERS CA that needed the clutch replaced last year. It had a plow attached. We had it towed to the repair place near us and they charged us $1800 to fix it (they replaced the clutch and the bulk of the costs was the labor). Anyway, it wasn't a cheap fix.

We just want to sell it and make back something for our troubles... rather not sell it for junk because it seemed to work well before the clutch problems.

-jb-

JBinNY · Sep 29, 2008

On both sides of the hood clearly is the original printing that says INTERNATIONAL 444. So we're pretty sure it's a 444, but the backhoe part was definitely a later add on.

The backhoe portion was a yellow color like a CATERPILLAR or something similar, but the rest of tractor was dark red (the wheels were white or light gray).

Who ever owned it previously did a lot of modifications.

I added some other information in my last post... maybe that will shed some light on things.

Thanks so much for your comments!

-jb-

JimB2 · Sep 29, 2008

Hi JB, I looked in my OEM book for tractors with gas C-175 engine and they are 454 & 464. The 444 was either BD154 Diesel or C-153 gas. The way to tell the difference is the gear shift. The 444 has a gear shift on top of the transmission cover with a HI/LO lever on the left of the gear shift. The 454,464 has a gear shift by the left fender that has a 1-4 lever and a HI/LO/REV lever.

The clutches are different, the 444 clutch is a two stage clutch, 1/2 wave down stops transmission, all the way to floor stops transmission & PTO. Clutch is adjusted by loosening 2 bolts on clutch lever and rotating clutch release shaft with wrench until 7/8 inch of free travel is acquired.
On 454/464, clutch is single stage and only controls transmission. The PTO is controlled by lever by right rear of seat. The clutch is adjusted by removing pin from clutch rod and turning clevis until about 3/4 inch free travel is acquired.

BUT, I believe your problem is the clutch disk has stuck to the flywheel or the pressure plate.
Just like disk brakes on a car after a rain, the metallic compound it the clutch pads rust onto the flywheel and stick.

Search the archives for "stuck clutch" and you will find various solutions. My first attempt would be to start it in gear, holding the clutch down and applying the brakes to see if the clutch will break free. BE VERY CAREFULL have a finger on the OFF switch.

To prevent clutch from sticking again, use tractor more frequently or when parked for a long time, rest loader & back hoe buckets on ground, block rear wheels and tie or block clutch lever in disengage position.

Hope this helps
JimB

NEWBIEJB · Aug 14, 2013

Hello to funny because this storey is my story and I am also JB. My father also passed away not a farmer or even that equipment savey. He got it from a friend who owned from new I believe and wanted it around camp (cottage).
I was wondering if there is a back hoe one can purchase for this unit and a cab to make it winter useable.

I want to blast it as this is what I do and I want to repaint it to bring it back to a like new condition. From what I can see it is well worth it as this is a good work horse and well worth cleaning up. It is a diesel to boot so I am hoping every thing else is in good shape.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

thanks so much .

cheers
James B.

RC Brooks · Aug 15, 2013

You can always pick up a 3pt backhoe. They're ok for general work. I know the 544s can handle a cab and I'd assume if there's at least an aftermarket cab that was designed to fit if a stock one wasn't available.

NEWBIEJB · Aug 15, 2013

(quoted from post at 04:58:20 08/15/13)
You can always pick up a 3pt backhoe. They're ok for general work. I know the 544s can handle a cab and I'd assume if there's at least an aftermarket cab that was designed to fit if a stock one wasn't available.

Thanks very much for the reply. Where would start to look for these items. From what I see this is now owned by case is this correct
Thanks once again.

RC Brooks · Aug 15, 2013

As far as a cab, looking online I think the cab from a 574 would fit. You'd just have to call some tractor salvage yards. Probably not easy to find.

Tractor house has listings for cabs. You can keep an eye out there, but the prices always seem to be a tad high. Personally, I'd expect to pay between 500-1000 for a cab. On a 444, it might be more worthwhile to throw on a pair of insulated coveralls and gloves. A cab can make a tractor unpleasant in the summer.

As far as the backhoe, you can find 3pt units all over the place. Does your 444 have remotes? If not, then you'll want to look for a 3pt with a pto driven pump. (I am not familiar with 444's, I'm speaking in mechanical generalities). New 3pts typically range in the 3500-6000 dollar range when new, depending on features and stats. With a 444, I'd imagine you'd be at the lower end of the spectrum. Expect to pay 60-75% of the above numbers for a good used unit.

NEWBIEJB · Aug 15, 2013

Ok thanks very much for the reply. I see there is a PTO as
It looks like it had a plow on it at some point.
The cab would be warm in the summer I'm sure but keeping the
Doors open would be ok as -40 it would be
Nice to have the enclosure with some heat
I may even consider blasting and painting and
Sell then replace with something used.
I don't care if the paint is bad that is somthing I
Can clean up.
Anyway thanks for the help greatly appreciated.

James

jrivenburg61 · Apr 7, 2015

(quoted from post at 06:00:38 09/29/08) Hello,

My father bought an old INTERNATIONAL 444 (tractor) backhoe that he was going to use to dig around a house to repair the foundation. Unfortunately he got very sick and passed away before he had a chance to use it. I know very little about these machines and could use the help of some of you experts here at this forum.

Whoever had the machine before my father apparently modified the old 444 tractor by adding a front bucket loader and the hydraulic digging arm in the back.

Anyway, it was working properly when my dad passed away and my family decided to sell it since we really had no need for it anymore. I decided to prime/paint it, to make it look better so we could sell it more easily. I would move it from the shade to the sun to paint it each day. One day I couldn"t get it in gear. I didn"t know what was wrong so we called a relative that knew some things about heavy equipment. He messed with the clutch pedal (tried adjusting the rod length, etc) but it didn"t help. He really wasn"t sure what was wrong, but we were able to start it with it in gear and move it to where it"s parked now.

I"m guessing that the 444 will have to be pulled apart to see what"s going on with the clutch. We"re not sure if it"s worth the investment.

#1)This 444 runs on GAS. Not sure how much it would cost to get repaired. Is it worth repairing to re-sell or should we just sell it as is and hope for the best? What would you guys do???

#2) Not sure what year this model was made. Some numbers that we found on the engine block: C175 211C , 4727 R , 122CB [also H2670C on the bucket]
Can anyone help identify this?

#3) Even if this thing was running perfectly what is the general value? (Other than being primed, it looks pretty old, lots of welds, tire tread maybe 50% at best, just generally it"s seen better days).

Please help. THANKS!

-jb-

jrivenburg61 · Apr 7, 2015

hi my name is juan i think i have yore 444 international tractor if this is it tall me

jrivenburg61 · Apr 7, 2015

hi my name is juan i have a old international no the hud sassy 444international but i don't no if it right the model number is 4727 R and the motor is c-175 the trane is a 3605553R3 and 360486-R5

jrivenburg61 · Apr 7, 2015

hi my name is juan i have a old international no the hud sassy 444international but i don't no if it right the model number is 4727 R and the motor is c-175 the trane is a 3605553R3 and 360486-R5

Owen Aaland · Apr 7, 2015

The US 444 is a different tractor than the 444 in the rest of the world. It sounds like the one he has is the world model rather then the US model.

Help needed with International 444

JBinNY

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IH2444

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mkirsch

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JBinNY

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IH2444

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JBinNY

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JBinNY

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JimB2

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NEWBIEJB

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RC Brooks

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NEWBIEJB

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RC Brooks

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NEWBIEJB

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jrivenburg61

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jrivenburg61

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jrivenburg61

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jrivenburg61

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Owen Aaland

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