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Re: Farmall H engine bearings… removed rod caps

J

Joe Henry

New User
Removed the rod caps off of pistons 2 and 3. Piston 2 is the one that got hot and it appears that and feels like the crank journal has been scored, although not terribly bad. None of the bearings wear “spun” and the rod bearing for piston 2 was also scored, but the others were fine. The thrust bearing on the main journal has been shredded apart as seen in the picture.

So how bad do these look to everyone? I am tempted to just put in a new rod bearing on piston 2 and possibly a new main bearing. Maybe I could just run 40 weight oil! Who thinks that’s a good idea?
v6070.jpg

v6071.jpg

v6072.jpg

v6073.jpg

v6074.jpg

v6076.jpg
 
I'm sure no pro at motors, and I could be wrong, but if it were me and I had it apart already think I'd go ahead and fix it right. Just my opinion anyway.
 
SOmething is not right for that center thrust bearing to wear like that, and just putting it back together with new parts isnt going to fix it.They will just wear like that again.
 
Hey, if you want to gamble a few bucks for bearings, gasket and oil, give it a shot. Dress up the crank journals real good with very fine emery paper ( comes on a roll, about 1 inch wide, easy to work with )I dont know what caused that thrust surface to wear like that, maybe low on oil, but I would give it a try, you might get lucky and if not you wont be much worse off than you are now.In the old days they did lots of odd repairs, shim stock under bearings etc, sometimes it even worked. good luck
Bob S.
 
I would have to respectfully disagree with the statement that "the crank is scored but not terribly bad". It sure looks bad to me. The clearances and tolerance between the journals and bearings is tight and scoring like that in the pictures isn't going to fix itself. The motor needs to be pulled and rebuilt. The crank needs to be turned.
 
I"ll agree with Scott, but I don"t know that Bob S. doesn"t have it right too. Crankshafts on a tractor aren"t hard to get at. However, as I understand it, if your fingernail can feel ANYthing while drawing it across a journal, it should be turned.
Ain"t cheap, though. The "grind/polish/finish" on my SA crank cost $130, beyond the cost for magnafluxing and checking runout ($24), and some $80 for new bearings.
And that was on the replacement crank. The original one that was in my engine turned out, on magnafluxing, to have a crack!
Maybe it all comes down to money. Nothing wrong with that either, if you need it back in the field. Nobody will guarantee how long before it needs it again, but the top RPM aren"t in the Nascar-range either.
 
That looks like aluminun babbit on the crank. So you do not take anymore steel off with emory/sand paper, go to your local radiator shop, buy a little pure muratic acid. start dabbing it on the aluminum, with a cotton swab, it will eat the aluminum off the crank. Is a long process, and will clean oil off anything it touches and will flash rust. so be patient. Be very careful, thought, muratic acid is nasty stuff, and the gas it gives off when eating the aluminum is strong, will burn your eyes, and make it hard to breath. But will clean the steel without taking any more off and making clearances wider.
Jim
 
Howdy
I dont want to start an arguement or confuse Joe any further, but they make emery paper in polishing grade that will do a pretty fair job on that crank. I still say , if time and or money are the problem and he needs to try a cheap fix that just might work , go with the polishing method, I would not put acid on it and start a process that may never stop till the crankshaft is ruined. Polish it real good put the bearings in and Plasti- Gauge them, go to undersize bearings if necessary, but I doubt if it will be necessary.
Bob S.
 
what end of the thrust bearing went? the side on the front of the motor or the side toward the rear? whatever is going on , i suspect something is pushing the crankshaft. if it was the rear of the thrustbearing, could be coming from the clutch or input shaft of the trans. i've seen this happen if too much grease was put on a pilot bearing and the shaft constantly pushes the crankshaft forward, it will wipe out a thrust bearing. i would split the tractor and pull the crank.
 
Don't spend any time or $ putting it together until you find out what happened to the thrust bearing. If you put it together it will do it again and may lock up the shaft with the new bearings.
 
I think that if you just clean it up and throw a set of bearings in it, it will blow up again shortly.

The bearing did not fail for no reason. It looked like that one got pretty hot. That usually indicates a lack of oil, spun or not.

After you figure out why it failed, then I would not be afraid to put in a set of bearings and see what happens. You don't have much to lose. The crank and at least one rod are probably shot already.

H motors are plentiful. If it blows up and tears a hole in the case, you can always find another one to rebuild.

Greg
 
The H was run very low on oil, because of an unknown hole in the oil pan, which is likely the main root problem for all this. Fixed the hole and we actually filled it back up with oil and it ran very well and strong, except the faintest knock could be detected with a careful ear. So we decided to get a closer look.

It is interesting to hear everyone's opinion and advice, very helpful. Thanks!
 
Something is mixed up there. You would not use an acid. Muriatic acid, which is hydrochloric acid, will eat away at the steel of the crank. I"m not sure what it will do to the aluminum. I do know that aluminum will be dissolved by sodium hydroxide, or lye, without the steel being touched.
 
Joe,

Those old IH bearings are really, really "forgiving" because they run so darned much oil gap.

However, if you can feel the scoring on the journal with your fingernail, ya better yank that crank and either take it to a machine shop or get another.

It won't last a day otherwise,

Allan
 
I would like to see a new set of bearings put in and run it ---- it's not my money or my tractor and I'm interested in seeing what happens!

Thrust bearing will wear on the front surface from normal use of pushing the clutch in - if it was used for certain chores, the clutch may have been pushed more than it was out... and running low on oil will wipe out bearings quick...

I think these old low RPM engines can be pretty forgiving... if you try it and it still knocks, you're not out much $$$
 
Polish the journals with 400 grit strips (be even and uniform in doing so) put new inserts in it and use it. Reality is not always a new girlfriend! JimN
 
Given what was said about it being run low on oil and the fact that it was "almost right" when you finally refilled it with oil I agree with JimN. Although you might try 800 grit as a "finish" sand.

Even if we're wrong you aren't out much (easy for us to say).
 
I think its going to take a little more than 400 or 800 grit to clean those journals. I think the shaft needs to be ground undersize if you want to last. Hal
 
Paul,
I use muratic acid all the time to remove the aluminum off the crankshaft on small engines. I am sure if you soak it in the acid, it will eventually eat the steel, but it will eat the aluminum off a steel crank journal real slick.
Jim
 
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