560 D282 starting problem after head job....help

Ok .from a previous blown head gasket post.....had head magnafluxed and surfaced.....I installed a new ex. valvespring to replace a broken one....everything else seems ok....I had the injector bodies out and cleaned buildup off the injector area with a scotchbrite on air die grinder...was this a no-no??

cont. -- I torqued head bolts....set valves to .026 -- feelers didnt have .027...set on a loose .026...

Put manifolds back on and want to get running before filling with water ...

I hooked up fuel lines, bled both filters .....
I try starting and with ether ( always used a whiff in the past) and throttle w/o --get black smoke ..starts a little to white...kinda sounds noisier than it used to but wont fire..keep killing baterries--- what could be the ailment ??
Thanks dave

Did you bleed the high pressure fuel lines?

Are the injectors put in the right way the glowplug must be above the injectorline.
We had the same problem, after we turned the injectors is started with no problems and without ether.

Have ya tried takin' it out and draggin' 'er around the yard yet?

Allan

Dave: Follow Allan's directions, hitch on and tow start it. I had 2, 282 diesels, been there and done that on numerous ocasions, especially after fuel system had been apart.

Chuck : you talking at the fittings going to the injectors??

I havent been playing with the glow plugs...switch needs fixed... but if the bodies were upside down, would it make a difference if not using the plugs?? I didnt initially have them out....guy who surfaced the head did.....

Hugh, Allen ...I could do that ... I 'll have to run a tractor down to my garage, they are 12 mile away...my Toyota pu wont tow it...tried that when I first bought the tractor...Chevy truck is down waitin for me to switch trannies....

Thanks for the replies....was getting frazzled....

I have 656D and a 460D and neither will start without glow plugs, period. However, 20-30 seconds on the glow plugs and both fire right up, regardless of temperature or changing out filters....

Why do you want it to start with no water in it? Do you want a cracked head? Put the ether away and get those glow plugs working, unless you like broken rings. Bleed the lines at the injecters until they all show fuel. Did you grind the valves and seats ? If so were they still within specs or are they down too far?

#1. Throw the ether away... bad juju in glow plug engines...

#2. Crack all of the fuel line fittings at the injectors.

#3 crank until you have fuel there and no air coming out.

#4 tighten lines but not all of the way, let them seep a bit to continue bleeding air if it may be present

#5 Lean on the glow plugs for 60 seconds before turning her over - helps to know that all 6 glow plugs are in fact working.

Once it fires (assuming everything is put back together correctly) you can go back and bleed all of the lines while it is running to make sure all of the air is out.

Sorry Allen and Hugh but pull starting a tractor that has just been repaired can lead to bad situations. Either in broken parts and or run aways and in turn destroyed equipment and broken bodies...

The only time I've had to pull my 560D was due to poor batteries. Simply cracking open the lines at the injectors has always been enough to bleed the system. Sixty second of bending over to hold that glow plug switch is a looong time, but it always does the trick on mine when the temp is above freezing.

It does take a good battery to spin the diesel fast enough - took me a while to learn this coming from gas engines.

Too much either will make it hard to crank over. Get some batteries, have a look a the starter, once you know those are in good shape, once it does fire up and run, you know that will never give ya fits if ever in that situation again. If its not fired up at all, you might want to double check the lash adjustments, make sure one is not tight.

THANKS for all the replies....

I got it running this afternoon after work........It took opening all of the injector lines and cranking till steady fuel was squirting...then I put them back on not quite tight, cranked till it started, then tightened them down....

I did notice one injector body was leaking...I think it needs a new o-ring and washer....
Also I have used ether in it but never with the glow plugs..

teddy52food...I usually fire an engine after working on it or a rebuild and only run it for 20-30 seconds to make sure there are no major problems....then shut it down, add water and bring up to temp...I just have very little diesel experience....

Hugh,Allan -- I was going to try one more time then start draggin .. lol
manual says those pumps self bleed.....guess not....
thanks again for the replies......

Bullfeathers, I farmed for a lot of years put over 75,000 hours on diesel tractors. I've tow started just about any machine that could be tow started, and never broke anything doing it.

My dad an I farmed two generations with as many as 7 tractors, 2 skid loaders, 4 trucks and 6 to 10 employees on the go at any given time, and never had a lost time accident. You take your advice and shove it.

(quoted from post at 14:26:16 08/15/08) THANKS for all the replies....

......manual says those pumps self bleed.....guess not....
thanks again for the replies......

Click to expand...

The pump IS self bleeding. The injectors are not. That is why you need to bleed the air from the injectors. If you had pulled it you would eventually get the air bled through the injectors and it would have started. It can take quite a while if there is much air in the lines.

hugh .allen keep it simple.start disels on gas.

Hogwash. As long as you know what your doing, pay attention and do everything in the right order, pull starting it works just as well. We had to pull start my 560D after a fresh rebuild up at tech school cause the starter was junk and dealer had none on hand. Pulled it to get oil pressure, than cracked the injection lines bled em all, retightened em and pulled it around for about 3 minutes and it fired right off. Weve had to pull start 6 or 7 tractors at tech school, theres even been some real old time tractors we started off another with a flat belt.

Only time equipment is damaged or people are injured is when something wasnt done right or somebody doesnt know what they're doing.

NOT trying to get in a war here...just needing help...and over the long haul..hugh and allan have given me a wealth of tech help....although the advice given I had taken a slower approach because of the situation that I farm 12 mile away from the shop...I still appreciate the replies... I fixed it with minimal stress here...job done so far... thanks again...filling it with that (holy crap) $10/gal antifreeze .... thanks



Dave

Hey at least ya got it running, thats always good to hear.

Sory just thought I'd post a picture of mine, just had to pullstart it till I could afford a new starter. :lol:

Dave: I suggested towing for a number of reasons. Of all the diesel I owned I always found the 282 most troublesome to bleed and get started after the fuel system had been apart or drained. Couple that with the fact these tractors don't have the best starting system. Starter itself is no more than heavy enough. Then one has the added drain created by glow plugs. The whole system is fine for everyday starting when tractor is well tuned, and as long as one maintains 800 to 1000 cca batteries.

The problem with glow plug diesels is the extra cranking required to bleed the system, plus the extra glow plug time keeping it warm enough to start. We always want it started, as it is much easier to fine tune a warm engine after you've seen how it works. My main reasons for towing these tractors is to save and extend life of starter, glow plugs and batteries.

Will you kindly get those glow plugs fixed and operational. Continued use of ether is very hard on the engine. Ether should only be used on non glow plug diesels and then only in an emergency start. With working glow plugs and circulating block heater a 282 diesel will start at -40F anytime, with proper oil, either 20W or 15W-40. I used block heaters on all my tractors, not only to get them started, my prime reason was warming the engine to reduce wear. I started pluging them in at +40F.

Hugh:
I got a little better understanding now...
I need to fix a terminal on the switch under the dash....or I could mount a seperate new momentary switch so I could get them working....there were new plugs put in before I got the tractor....
I have 2 6 volt batteries in it now...

One thing I did notice was sputtering from the injector body ...I will pull it and see if the guy that did the head had a pre cup come out and lost the gasket.....I picked up a new o-ring and metal gasket for the injector body...
Thanks again
Dave

NO ETHER, NEVER!!! Bad, bad, dog, no biscuit for you... Ether is VERY dry, WD-40 or similar is much easier on the engine. Even a rag soaked in gasoline or similar placed near the intake (don't let it get sucked in) has known to work.

Hugh: I use a circulation type heater here in Louisiana. It may only get into the high 20's in the dead of winter, but it may as well be Siberian Tundra with an old IH engine. I plug mine in from about November until February as needed (it has been in the 80's for Christmas...)

Clefus: Make sure you go somewhere like NAPA an get a HEAVY DUTY momentary switch. I use a 30A fuse and a 30A or 40A momentary PB through 10ga wire, on 4 glow plugs. I usually let mine heat up 30-60 seconds, even if it is 105 outside. Starts quick and smokeless. With 6 (functioning) glowplugs, I would use something like a Ford starter relay actuated by a switch of your choice if the high-amp PB is cost prohibitive.

Charles

Hugh,

My advice is very valid and very safe. I reckon you wouldn't understand unless you've been behind the wheel of something that had the throttle stick open or go WOT by itself while being pull started. Really makes a bloody mess of things, people and machinery included. This isn't to say that I have never pull started anything, I have, countless times, just not machinery that has been freshly repaired and is being started for the first time. This bit of learning has been passed down to me by those who learned the hard way. I don't care how good of a mechanic you are, things do and will get missed or put together incorrectly at some point down the road. It isn't a matter of if but a matter of when. I'd sure hate to be the one that got someone else hurt.

Almost 25 years under my belt repairing and operating farm machinery, 90+% IH. I grew up in an IH repair shop. I'll stand by my advice. I'm still here to tell about it without any broken bones or missing body parts.

I also still own the 560D that my grandfather bought new in early 63. I've put more than a few thousand hours on the meter of this machine over the years and have done quite a bit of work to the old girl since I was old enough to turn a wrench on my own. I more or less know it front to rear, inside and out and side to side. I am sure I could still learn some more to cover the top to bottom...

But then again we can't all be the agricultural super genius you claim to be here in the YT world...

So you Sir can, as you say, "shove it"

I guess you don't comperhend very well. Two generations with employees, tractors, trucks and skid loaders and NO LOST TIME ACCIDENTS. Some of that equipment worked round the clock during summer months.