Has anyone had problems out of this unit? (PICTURES)

First lets look at the unit in question: The Power Steering Flow Divider Valve.



This is on a Farmall 504 Diesel with remotes and power steering (obviously because it has this). Here is the breakdown from the TC-88 parts manual.



This is what I've got; low remote hydraulic pressure to or from the valves.



I have replaced the pump with a NEW 17GPM unit (previously 12 GPM), NEW oil, NEW filters (stock 12 GPM filters, two small round units), REBUILT remote valves, NEW male and female couplings, and REBUILT 1600 psi hydraulic pilot relief valve (looked good, little wear).

I still have the same problem. When I stroke the valve to put down pressue on the loader to raise the front end off the ground the power steering flow divider squeals. Also I can feel heat from the pilot relief valve during this time. It did this with the 12 GPM pump, just the loader moved slower, not it is ugly fast. I do not think it is a filter issue either.

Is the relief too weak? Is the power steering flow divider bypassing? Is the remote valve bypassing (probably not)?

I know that using the rear remotes for loader service is usually looked down on. I am searching for a 3 spool valve with float, power beyond, and an adjustable pressure regulator. I will plumb this before the remotes to give the loader 2000-2500 psi.

Thanks in advance,

Charles

Come on guys, and you call yourselves tractor guru's???

Well lets see here your working on a hyd . system you tell me that you have replaced the pump with a bigger pump you also replaced the pressure relief with a 1600 lb. valve and you have low pressure to the remotes . Now you did not tell what you have for pressure at the remotes or just because you replaced the 12 GPM pump with a 17 that you have the 17 gal. flow at rated pressure at rated rpm. I see where ya made changes to the system with hose rather then steel lines and as for the flow divider i would have to think way back as to if i ever had a problem other then a pice to dirt sticking on or a part of and o/ring that went thru . Now with out putting a FLOW RATER to the system and seeing what all is going on I do not have a clue . I have never been one to put bigger pumps in a system that can only filter 14 GPM on a new filter with no water in the oil. As to putting 2500 lbs pressure to the loader hey it's your tractor and you are the one that will pay the price for added lift as the ft. end was only made to handle so much . So it is like this with out a FLOW RATER and fittings to hook up to the system Don't know what to tell ya. Best ya can do is look for a Blue Ribion service manual on the hdy'for that tractor and find a flow rater .

Check the flow divider. Can't remember what plug it is under. There is a soft plug with an orfice in it. This is the controled flow for the power steering. The plug will come out and dump most of the oil through the power steering, leaveing the rest of the system weak. The plug is not serviced. Might find a used flow divider. I used to just get a soft plug & drill a hole size just below 1/8" and put it back in. Will be able to see a recess for the plug.

Why is using the built-in remotes for loader duty "looked down upon?" Other than the not-so-useful locations of some remote valves on some tractors, what reasons would you have for not using the built-in remote valves for what they're intended to do?

1. You save $500 by not having to buy an extra spool valve bank and associated plumbing.
2. You don't have to figure out how to do "power beyond," which is especially handy because it's not easy to do on many tractors, impossible on others, and very expensive to do on any tractor if you've got to find expensive rare parts (e.g. the power beyond plate for an 06-66 series tractor and a replacement second valve with the open end to accomodate the plate). If you can't do power beyond all you're going to do is hook into the existing remote and tie back the lever anyway... Why not just use the remotes themselves?
3. You don't have to figure out where to mount the extra valve bank where it will be useful for loader work but not in the way otherwise.
4. Makes removing the loader simpler, as you can just unplug the quick connects instead of having to unplumb and remove the extra spool valve bank.

Most loader installations I've seen use the tractor's built-in remotes to power the loader.

Because a good loader will have three functions and most tractors are usually equipped with just two remotes.

Splitter to get the other function will easily cost that $500.

Allan

Yeah, but we're talking about an antique loader on an antique tractor here. You're not going to see a bale grapple or clamshell bucket on the front of a 504, or most any older tractor for that matter.

switch the hoses at the couplers so the loader and bucket are on the opposite remote they are now. or switch the hoses within the remote pair so lift is drop, etc.
after both tests see when the noise is made. You will then have more info. it could be a bad coupler on the tractor end, bad coupler on the loader end, an engineered restriction in the loader drop, ... maybe you are putting the lever into the float position and something is not right so it pressurizes wrong...

does it make noise when you drop the loader from 4 ft above ground? does your loader lift the front of the tractor while making noise?--if not, maybe your loader is installed too high on the tractor so it cannot lower below front tires--i.e. your cylinders are already bottomed out/fully retracted. I thought of this because if i remember right your tractor sits "up hill"

good luck post back.

karl f

Wow, many directions to look in here! I just thought I had looked at it all.

the tractor vet:
I need to find a flow meter, either buy or borrow. I thought the stock filters were good to 14GPM, I just had them on hand. I have the bypass for the bigger filter, but yet to buy the actual filter. I also think I am going to have to make a spacer because it is thicker. I have Blue Ribbon manuals, TC-88 manual, and I&T manual, now I am here seeking answers. As for the steel vs. rubber, the #8 hose is better than what I had to work with originaly. I just need to re-route the hoses some to clean up the arangement. Thank you Vet.

These are early pictures, I have started improving on this...










Ted Bedient
I am a little confused about the "soft plug", but I just aquired a used flow divider to tear down and inspect/learn on and possibly rebuild if required. Thanks.

mkirsch
When I say looked down on, I mean it ties up all remote valves. When I baled hay this year (1st year with the loader) I had to un couple the bucket to hook up the bale chamber door. If it had hydraulic tie, then I would have had to remove the loader. More valves the better options one has. Also it is an antique tractor with a brand new loader, I bought the Koyker 220 in January.

Allan in NE
You hit the nail on the head. A good loader had 3 circuits. I plan to build a "thumb or pair of thumbs" to grapple light brush. I am clearing land and this will save my 27 year old back 8) As soon as the dozer man finishes, I plan to use my 10' Massey tandem to disk 50 acres. I need my remotes for the disk. I found a good deal on a 3 spool Prince valve and I plan to Power beyond between the pump and existing remotes using the Prince adjustable PSI regulator for the loader (2000-2500 psi). I will mount the valve bank on the loader with 3/4" quick-couplings. This way I can revert to stock w/o the loader on the tractor and leave the valve bank with it.

Karl F
I have switched the hoses around and have the same results. I have about 4-6" of cylinder shaft left. But now that you mention it, they may be bottomed out (I feel stupid...). Karl, I think you solved my problem. I will check this tomorrow. It does sit somewhat "uphill" and the loader fits pretty high on the tractor. I will try to lift my 88" flail mower. If it lifts it up, I made an improvement (1300 lbs). When I first installed the loader I could not lift a 6' bucket of dirt.

BEFORE


AFTER (Day I installed. I since installed my lights and new muffler)






Thanks guys for the brainstorming session. I have fought the hydraulics since I installed the loader. It demanded more than the 46 year old system was up to. It was slow, now it is fast (upgraded pump). It used to be intermittent, not it responds instantly (bypassing relief and leaking valves). The help of this site had allowed an Electrician to rebuild the hydraulics of an antique. Sorry for the lengthly post.

Now if anyone has advice on using the bigger filter feel free. I have been told I will have to have a machine shop build a spacer for the cover... If so, anyone know how thick?

some spacers are available for sale on the net, such as the link below:


karl f
filter extension

Thank you again Karl F. And by looking at the prices I say it is agood deal. I have found a Hy-Capacity dealer locally and he has good prices. Prevoiusly I had use a NH dealer and he was gouging my eyeballs out and skull..... you get the picture. The small filters (2 round one, $31), the small single for $27. The site with the spacer has the bigger single filter for $15!

Charles