'45 M - hydraulics low?

I just bought my first tractor yesterday. Really nice '45M, but the loader will not go up high enough for my needs. Currently only goes up about 3 1/2'. I need about 4' of lift (close, but not there!).
Called the previous owner and he told me it should go up about 6' (bottom of the bucket about even with the top of the hood). I think it is low on fluid, but can't figure out where to add it.
Looks like the pump is on the front right side behind the radiator- I added about a gallon to what I thought was the right spot - fill plug right behind the battery on top, just to the side of the control valve. This did nothing. There is also a cap up front just in front of what I believe to be the pump. Opened it and it is dry. Is this the pump?

Thanks in advance!
~Kevin

Sounds Like you need a manual. Is the pump between the Distributor and the "dry" fill? If so you have live hydralics which is great. The "Dry" spout you speak of is probably the oil fill for the engine.

When you did the fill, did you use hydralic fluid? I know that the belly pumps use 30wt oil and not hydralic fluid.

I too just bought my first tractor, a 45M and loader goes up at least 6'. Mine happened to come with a manual. Well worth the 20 bucks on ebay. It's explains a whole lot about where everything is and how to maintain it.


T.C.

If it was me I would call the man you brought the tractor from and ask a few more questions. First question would be does he have the owners manual. Second question would be questions about if it has a after-market hyd. pump as this would not be covered in the owners manual. Armand

Stop right where you are and do proceed any further until you know what you are doing. So far, I think you have added one gallon of the incorrect oil to the transmission, which is why it had no effect on the hydraulics. That other cap you are looking at is for adding engine oil.
If indeed the hydraulic pump is behind the radiator, then you have an aftermarket pump, not original to the tractor. Most of those conversions do use the original belly pump as a reservoir, so the correct place to add hydraulic oil will be that pipe that is IN FRONT of the battery, on the tractors right side. Do not add more than one quart of engine oil to this fill pipe at a time or you run the risk of over-filling it and then you will have a mess to clean up. Please! Buy a manual.

After getting a manual don't hesitate to post all of your "newbie" questions on here. They have treated me awesome in my current 3 weeks on the site. Better to ask too many questions than to ruin your investment.

If you could post a picture of the right side of the tractor someone would be happy to tell you what you have and where to add oil.

I have ordered a manual. I will take and post some pictures of the right side as well as the hydraulic valves behind the battery (as well as the fill plug I put the AT/Hydraulic fluid into).

So far I haven't gotten my tractor out of first gear, we only have 3 acres so not a lot of ground to cover.

Thanks for the help! My manual is on the way, but hopefully with some pics someone can help me get more lift out of my loader!

Kevin, does the loader have single or double acting cylinders?

do like rusty said and dont add any more fluids till you get the manual. you may also have the hydraulic resevoir in the loader itself. i have a loader on my m that has the resevoir on both vertical frames on the rear of the loader. also my minnie moline has the resevoir for the loader and the back hoe in the loader frame.

I took a few pictures. Light was on the wrong side of the tractor, but it is currently out of gas and it was easier to take pics than move it!
Hope these make sense and will help someone help me! The (large) pictures are the large format pics of the same thing as the small (if needed for better detail).

Thanks in advance!
~Kevin

Here are links to pictures of the tractor:
right side side
<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/M_right_side.jpg"> Right side (small scale) </a> )<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/PHOT0077.JPG"> Right side (large scale - broadband only)</a>

Left side:
<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/M_left_side.jpg"> Left side (small)</a>
<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/PHOTO076.jpg">Left Side (large)</a>



<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/M_Hydro.jpg">Right side Hydro</a> <a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/PHOTO072.jpg"> Right side (large) </a>
<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/M_Hydro_2.jpg"> Right side hydro #2</a> this one is circled where I added the AT fluid.
<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/PHOTO074.jpg">Right side hydro 2 (large)</a>



<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/M_pump.jpg">Pump - front right </a>
<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/PHOTO073.jpg">pump (large)</a>



<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/M_left%20side_hydro.jpg"</a> left side hydro (also shows where AT fluid added)</a>
<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/PHOTO075.jpg"> Left side hydro (large)</a>

The loader is only one way. It is a trip loader with gravity down. It goes up nice and smooth for the first 3 feet. Pretty quick too- then it sort of slows down and struggles to get the last 6 inches.
I didn't just blindly add fluid- I called my dad who has a Super M and the guy who I bought it from. Both told me to add fluid to the spot I did (neither, however, mentioned it should be SAE 30wt and not AT/hydro fluid).

Cheers!
~K

The plug you have circled is the fill plug for the belt pulley drive. That in turn dumps into the tranny. The hose to the right of that and slightly forward would have been the original fill and level check port.
You have an add on aftermarket pump using the original hyd reservoir. You may be able to add oil by using one of the pipe plugs directly below the Hyd valve.

Pics posted above.

Thanks!
~K

Large scale pictures not working in links above.

Redone:

<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/PHOT0076.JPG">Large scale left side</a>


<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/PHOT0072.JPG">Large scale hydro right side - just in front of battery</a>

<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/PHOT0074.JPG">Large scale hydro right side 2 - just in front of battery</a>

<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons//pics/Tractor/PHOT0073.JPG">Large scale hydro right side - pump, just behind radiator, in front of distibutor</a>

<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/PHOT0075.JPG">Large scale hydro left side - just in front of battery</a>

So the aftermarket pump is routed through the original fill hole, if I understand correctly.

I have to create my own port into the hoses and attempt to add more fluid?

Just want to understand before I attempt anything else.

Your loader is a McCormick #30 or #31. It should raise to about 8 feet or so. It is also supposed to have hoses attached to the front/top of the cylinders and the other end of those hoses should be connected to the belly pump fill pipe. The front part of those loader cylinders is a reservoir for hydraulic oil. As the loader is raised, the oil in the cylinder reservoir is pushed into the belly pump reservoir, which gives you more oil available for raising the loader.

I believe this is the new fill valve. Not sure how I missed it in all my looking at the tractor today and yesterday.

So I should add one quart at a time of SAE 30 WT to this? After one quart see if my loader goes up any higher?

Larger format picture:
<a href="http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kaylyons/pics/Tractor/PHOTO078.JPG">Here</a>

Thanks!

That helps!

I was thinking it was a strange setup. I did notice a bit of fluid leaking from the front caps on the end of the cylinders. Guy I bought it from told me they were vents and had to be loose to allow pressure off. Some leakage because it was old.
So I should put a return line on each of them back to the reservoir. Just gotta figure out which of the two outlets on each side of the tractor are the fill pipes.

Thanks!
~Kevin

Yes, the lobed knob is the fill tube. Add 1 qt of 30 w at a time. You may also have to slow the return rate from the lift cylinders to avoid overflow. If it were me I would convert to 2 way cylinders.

Two way cylinders would be nice. Maybe a project for the future. For now I would be happy figuring out how the current setup works (or is supposed to work) before I go making too many changes. Gravity down doesn't seem too bad, although adding return lines to the reservoir would be a good idea, probably a lot cheaper than two way cylinders.

Thanks for all the help. Gotta go out and get some 30w oil tomorrow and give it a try.

You do have a after-market live hyd. pump which is much much better than the clutch-controled belly pump. That is the good news. The bad news is that the live pump will not be covered in the owners manual. You will also have to get a manual for a Super M stage 2 or a manual for a SMTA to cover the live pump and plumbing unless the man you brought the tractor from would have the pump-kit manual. Also the I&T repair manual for a Super M stage 2 or SMTA would be a lot of help. Where are you located or have you already told us? Armand

The good news is my dad has a Super M, and he has a manual. The bad news is he is 4+ hours away. :-(

I am in Hebron, IN (35 miles SE of Chicago). I sent him the pictures earlier and went through the plumbing of the current setup with him. My goal at the moment is just to get my loader to lift a good 6' or more. Then I think I want to try and get the return hoses on the arms setup as there is a bit of fluid leakage at max travel. Granted if this leak only happens at max travel and it in theory goes to 8' lift I will hardly ever go that high with anything.

Purpose for the loader is to load a dumpster weekly with manure. Dumpster is 48" high.

At the forward end of the cylinder body there appears to be a plug, top side of the cast piece. I think you have 2 way cylinders, they are set up as single acting.

There is a plug at the front of each cylinder. They do not match, so I did not think they were original equipment.

I would like to set them up as two way, but for short term getting another 6" of lift would be nice. Going to try and add a quart of 30W tomorrow and see if I get any more lift.
Now to have them work as a true two way cylinder I would need to connect them to the second output of my valve and not just to a return to the resevoir, correct?
This would be fairly easy as there is currently a plug on both sides (perhaps it was once setup that way, or just in case you need two way setup on each side).
Now with the aftermarket pump, do the hydro points on each side of the tractor coming out of the transmission do anything anymore?

Yes they would need to be connected to the output side of the valve. [ get help on the conversion] The ports on the side of the tractor would no longer be pressurized.
Start a new post if you need further help, this one is getting buried.

The cylinders on this loader are probably NOT 2-way compatible!!! if they are original.

There should be a dipstick under the fill cap that will tell you the level of the oil in the reservoir.

Some of these loaders actually used the tops of the cylinders as auxiliary reservoirs. The belly pump can't hold enough fluid to raise these loaders with the long cylinders completely. Hoses should be connected where these "caps" are, and run to a T on the fill pipe. Replace the vented cap with a solid cap so oil doesn't spray out.

To fill the auxiliary reservoirs, raise the loader as far as it will go, then keep adding hytran to the reservoir a quart at a time until the loader goes all the way up. Now when you lower the loader the overflow will get sucked into the tops of the cylinders.

Well I just ordered the manual for the McCormick #30 loader too. Figure for $18 w/ shipping it will be worth every penny.

That way I can read how it was supposed to be hooked up. There is a T already in the tube w/ the filler cap. Adding a return line would be quite simple. TSC I believe does custom length hoses while you wait, just have to price them out. Although I will wait for the loader manual before I do much other than check the fluid level and add a quart or two. I don't need max height, but 6" more is needed to get some of this manure moved!

Dumpster got here before the tractor and I would like to fill it before it gets emptied on Wed.

An item not mentioned yet is that if the cylinders have been intended to be used as resivoirs, and are capped off (as indicated in one of the posts) and if the cylinders have over time gotten some oil bypass of the pistons, there may be several quarts of oil above the pistons preventing system travel. I would place hoses on those ports, and put the end in buckets to see if it then raises, filling the bucket!.
The use as a secondary resivoir is important! JimN