e85 use it

jonnny2006 · Jul 18, 2008

I use e85 in allmost everything i run. i might not be saving any money but at least im not putting 25 gallons of gas in my van every time i fill up. insteas i only use 3 gallons of gas and can go 385 miles to a 25 gallon tank. in my aera it is 70 cents a gal cheeper than gas. my van loves the stuff and it is not flex fuel. i will use it untill they get grassoleen in my aera. i think switch grass is the way to go as far a alcohol is concerned, plus wast products turned into alcohol. american made fuel I USE IT!

IaGary · Jul 18, 2008

So you did not change any oxygen sensors or anything, you just started using e85?

What vehicles are you using it in?

Gary

rustyfarmall · Jul 18, 2008

Please tell us more.

kossuth · Jul 18, 2008

You might have other problems pop up over time. The E85 alcohol can potentially damage your rubber fuel lines and your fuel injector O-rings and such. Theres a reason why they say don't run it in any old vehicle.

IndianaMike · Jul 18, 2008

Yeah, I just converted my 95 Honda Prelude to E85. I bought a Piggy-back computer from Fuel Flex International, out of Idaho. It works ok, but I have an aftermarket chip in the ecu and it doesn't seem to like the e85. I think if I switched back to stock chip it would be fine. It keeps tripping the o2 sensor code. I think it is the aftermarket chip though, because I know it screws with the o2 sensor readings to trick the computer to run rich. Man, the power difference is apparent though. It just plain goes now. And, its cheap since I had to run premium in the car anyway. I would recommend the switch to anyone, especially if your car was made after 1990. They have no natural rubber in the fuel systems after this time approximately, so the alcohol won't degrade your seals. And it burns hotter and super clean, so its good for your engine and the environment, if you care about such things. Plus, the money for the fuel doesn't go to the Arabs!
Michael

IndianaMike · Jul 18, 2008

Oh, I almost forgot. The converter box I bought plugs into your injectors and boosts the signal from your computer to make your injectors put more fuel in the cylinders so it has the right mix for ethanol. It is also adjustible so you can tune it for your specific car.
Michael

tcanthonyii · Jul 18, 2008

Ethanol is fatally flawed. The Nation uses corn for everything. The government has to subsidize it to keep it alive. Makes everything you use more expensive. For all the global warming freaks out there it actually takes more energy to make it than drilling oil. The plants here in my neck of the woods pump ground water out at an unimaginable rate for the cooling process and then dump it down the river because it's cheaper than pumping it back into the ground. Not to mention the investors that won't let locals invest and buy up local property and tear down brand new buildings.

I agree that if we were to swtich to alcohol that switch grass or some other form of alcohol than corn based we would be better off.

Don't get me wrong i'm all for alternative engeries that make economic sense but corn is just plain stupid.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 18, 2008

Please get more information before you perpetuate the myths
that the oil companies put out 30 years ago when ethanol was
first used as an oxygenator as opposed to poisonous MTBE(that
was "owned" by the oil companies). Try E85 dot com. Also try
growing corn for a living and FINALLY getting a price for it that
is more in line with the price of everything else. Switch grass/
biomass production is 10-15 years from economical feasibility.
"Corn likker" can be made in your backyard (has been since
before prohibition).

GeneMO · Jul 18, 2008

I didn't think you could just put it in any vehicle? Doesn't it have to be E85 equipped?

Gene

mkirsch · Jul 18, 2008

Neither of you has the entire story straight...

Ethanol is a GOOD thing from the standpoint of government subsidies. Brings the value of corn up, so we taxpayers don't have to subsidize it.

The price you're getting for corn now being "more in line?" You spend all your newfound "profits" buying the $5/gallon diesel and $2000/ton fertilizer to grow and harvest the stuff, not to mention the higher prices for equipment and parts due to sharp rises in the prices of steel and shipping. Corn growers are no better off now than when corn was $3 a bushel.

Corn is a false economy for ethanol. Ideally, you get 1.3 times as much fuel energy out as you put in. That's if the farmers are using late-model efficient equipment. Plow your land with a 1066, harvest with a 915 combine, and draw it to the mill with a 1973 Ford truck like many smaller producers do, and it takes a lot more fuel to get the job done. In the end we may be on an energy exchange ratio less than 1, meaning we're using more oil energy than we're getting back in ethanol.

At the pump, you get 25% lower mileage out of E85 than straight gasoline. At $4.25 a gallon, if E85 is "70 cents cheaper" than gas, it's only 16% cheaper. You're spending MORE to fuel your car with E85 than gas.

What corn ethanol is is a "warm fuzzy" for people who can't / won't think.

dave guest · Jul 18, 2008

Seventy cents a gallon is the only reason I would ever use E85. What if you void your warranty on a brand new car? What if you screw up your paid for car that you now have to repair yourself or at your expense? How many gallons do you use to pay for engine? Auto repairs are $100 hour at dealers approximately.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 18, 2008

Diesel/ fertilizer prices are tied to OIL, so that arguement is
faulty, it is easier to buy $5 fuel with $7 corn than it is with $3
corn.
Will the farmer scrap his 1066-915-73 Ford ?? Let's no-till and
take that into this part of your arguement.
For arguing let's say you get 25MPG on regular IMPORTED gas,
per your -25% E85=18.75MPG. 16gal tank of reg=400miles
per tank x $4.25=$68 or $0.17 per mile, 16gal tank of E85=
300 miles per tank x $3.55= $56.80 or $0.189 per mile. For
0.02 that's 2 cents per mile or $240.00 per year I'll burn ethanol
from next door and not sent it to the mid-east.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 18, 2008

Warranty on new flex fuel vehicles covers E85. As for older cars,
it is ignitable fuel that burns cleaner than gas, you MAY need retuning, same engines have been used in Brazil since the 70s burning sugar cane ethanol, MAY need fuel lines, oxgen sensors (supposed to be replaced @ 50,000miles anyhow).

dhermesc · Jul 18, 2008

Agreed. If you keep the money in the US the dollar gains value and the trade imbalance gets better.

Think of it this way. If those dollars stay here and are paid to the farmers, distillery workers and truck drivers its more money stpent on John Deeres, Ford pickups, Polaris 4 wheelers and the like. If those dollars go to the middle east or other OPEC nations those dollars buy German cars, Japanese appliances or Soviet military surplus.

tcanthonyii · Jul 18, 2008

I agree it's better for the farmer corn grower but for the livestock ranchers etc. it's worse.

Govt. Subsidies on ethanol (or anything in my opinion) are not good. We would not subsidize it the market wouldn't handle it. It's basic economics. (sorry my college economics minor is coming out). I realize i'm in the minority here but I do know several guys who farm that won't have anything to do with ethanol.

When I get home I'll pull up some articles I have saved on Ethanol and how it takes more energy. I'd like to see the money stay here too dont' get me wrong but corn based ethanol isn't the answer. I'm personally a big fan of bio diesel and the development of that technology. Saw some things on the History channel where they can make it out of un-recyclable plastics and such. And another article on make it from algae farms in the desert.

I'm not basing my ideas on old propaganda I've actually studied in my free time ethanol and made my own opinion based on talking to people at auctions, internet and TV research. I do like biofuels. I think $7 corn is bad for everyone but the corn growers and so is 4-5 dollar a gallon gas.

Hope I didn't make too many people mad.

T.C>

tcanthonyii · Jul 18, 2008

Sorry and I also should have stated "Corn ethanol is fattally flawed" not ethenal in general in my first post.

T.C.

JT · Jul 18, 2008

That is strange you say that, my brother has a 2008 Ford F150 with a flex fuel engine, designed to use E85, he had some problems with fuel system. Ford tech, a family friend, asked if he had used E85, yep he had, told him his problem was caused by E85. So, if he is having problems with E85 in a flex fuel vehicle, I find it puzzling you are using it in an older car with no changes except the computor, with stock injectors. I would have to see more info before I did that to anything I drive.
Jim

Roger46 · Jul 18, 2008

Where do you think the energy to make corn based ethanol comes from? As someone else said, the ratio of energy in to energy out at best is 1:1.3 with corn based ethanol. They use petroleum based fuel (to say nothing about the amount of water used) to make corn based ethanol (plus the farmers use it to raise the crop) meaning you are esentially burning the same amount of petroleum only in the form of ethanol and in the process artificially driving up the price of corn. We need to look at alternative ethanol sources and other energy sources in general. And another thing, the most idiotic thing that is being done now is burning natural gas in power plants. They just converted one to natural gas in St. Paul, MN and the reason Excel Energy gave for the conversion is that they got tired of fighting the environmentalists. Roger

ih560 · Jul 18, 2008

Its take approximately 30% more Ethanol to maintain a stoich ratio and properly burn in an engine. An engine runs stoich on gasoline at 14.7:1 while it takes 9.0:1 for Ethanol. If you are running an engine that is not flex fuel on Ethanol, and by that I mean that it does not have the capabilities to fluctuate the AFR due to different types of fuel (or different % of alcohol) then your vehicle is running LEAN. If you run your vehicle very hard at all while running it this lean, you are going to cause damage by either detonation or just plain melting or burning pistons or valves.

When I was in college (earning a degree in Agriculture) I worked a lot on the farms where they had a fleet of about 75 or so flex fueled Vehicles of which they always ran on E85. These vehicles all had less than 30,000 miles on them at that time and they would always give us trouble with cold starting, to which the ford mechanics said was the Fault of the E85. They always recommend running mainly gasoline in them in the winter to aid in cold starting problems.

I just really do not really think that Corn Ethanol is the cure to anything, other than making people feel good. I done lots of research on this topic for my degree and it always came out the same way, we were trading their energy (foreign oil) for our energy (corn Ethanol) at a rate of about 1 : .9 or even worse. Even in the best case scenario we were just trading them even and still sending them all the same money we would have if we would have just used the fuel we got in the first place. It is just not sustainable.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 18, 2008

T.C.,
There are so many variables we may never get this solved; If
you raise your own livestock it is a matter of which form you sell
the grain in, if your buying feed, brewers mash is a better feed
than straight grain (ever see a fresh cow "pie" with undigested
corn). I have never seen a logical explaination of cost, the grain
would have been grown/transported/processed anyway, and are
we balancing any with the people employed to grow/haul/
process/distribute. If you are anti-ethanol or pro you can find
facts and figures to prove either point with selective choice of
what is relevant (ECONOMISTS are especially good at this tactic).
And remember people are always sure the "new" way won't/can't
work, who would have thought a tractor would replace the
horse/mule/oxen. Name a subject and you can find both sides
on the internet, What TV source is reliable and without an
agenda?

IndianaRed · Jul 18, 2008

You're not in the minority, quite the contrary, I think most here agree.

Another thing that was pointed out to me recently was how the Hydrogen cars will cause the same problem. It takes a great deal of energy to remove the H molecules from H2O, as they are very tightly bound.

I'm all for new advances, conservation, and anything else that will truly help. But for now, we need to drill domestically.

Has anyone noticed how just since the President removed the restriction on offshore drilling, the speculators have bid down oil futures by $16, in about a week?

Drilling will bring down the cost of a barrel, more quickly than anything else. Now if the nnalert Congress will just follow the President's lead and remove thier restrictions on offshore drilling. And drilling in ANWAR, and drilling in the trillion barrel deposits in South Dakota, etc., etc., etc..

tcanthonyii · Jul 18, 2008

You are 100% correct. Can't disagree with you. Like I said it's just an opinion and I doubt anyone will really know ever!

As far as the mash goes I agree too but you need to have a plant near by. Honestly I could care less about the energy used, I don't believe that C02 is a polutant anyway. Even if it is then more greenery will fix it. Take any elementary science class. Of more concern to me is the really high price of corn and everything it is used in and the water usage. I don't like "wasting" anything. Hence why I only buy used mowers, tractors, cars, visit auctions. Well and things are just plain more fun and cheaper too!

I am all for "alternative" energies where they don't get subsidized after producers needs a subsidy to make a profit. The cost to develop anything is astronomical so help from Big Daddy isn't all that bad. WE'll get it worked out eventually and some form most likely other than the black stuff will some day become #1.

Seems like it's revenger of the famers lately. The 80's paid nothing and everyone got cheap product. Now product is more expensive and the farmers are lauging all the way to the bank. 20 years and it'll be the other way around.

T.C.

teddy52food · Jul 18, 2008

I recently heard that it takes 5 quarts of petroleum to produce 4 quarts of E85. When you consider the fuel the farmers and truckers use to produce and haul the corn and the fuel for trucking the E85, I believe it. E85 is just burning up unreplacable topsoil.

F-Dean · Jul 19, 2008

Not all subsidies are bad! There is a difference between paying one of your own (your kid or a farmer) to mow the lawn and paying soneone (A neighbor's kid or an arab) to mow it.
Don't confuse domestic spending with international spending.

Anonymous-0 · Jul 19, 2008

Teddy,
I recently heard there will be a chicken in every pot. Read one of my posts below. Would the farmer have produced and hauled that corn anyway ? You or I can bend statistics to prove or disprove anything!! Continue to sent your money to the mid-east and complain because the $ won't buy much.

tcanthonyii · Jul 19, 2008

(quoted from post at 08:49:49 07/19/08) Not all subsidies are bad! There is a difference between paying one of your own (your kid or a farmer) to mow the lawn and paying soneone (A neighbor's kid or an arab) to mow it.
Don't confuse domestic spending with international spending.

What you may not realize is that "arabs" buy things from us too including corn. It's a wash.

T.C.

jonnny2006 · Jul 26, 2008

heres the Deal, i do think. I would pay more for E85 than gas, as our money is staying in the country. i would like to see electric cars that are charged up at home by my solar, or wind turban. But e85 has a positive energy rating and gas has a neg energy rating. If we were to take all the alcohol off the market today gas and diesel would be 50- 60 cents higher then it is now. the reason we are paying so much for everything is because oil is 120 a barrel, thats why stuff is so expensive not because of high corn. also the dollar has dropped by 20-30 % those two things along have more to do with high food prices and high prices in general then the corn price. The usda says about 1-3 % of total food increases is caused by high corn. I'm gonna use it till they come up with somthing better. i also pay a more for electricty as i choose to buy power from wind, the extra money they chage me goes to build more wind turbines. cheeper is not always better, keeping the money in our communities and country is way more important than saving a few bucks. I buy american whenever i can (that can be tough nowadays).

jonny2006 · Jul 26, 2008

i have a 2001 ford windstar. i have been running e85 in in now with no troubles what so ever. but when we go on a road trip say 100 miles one way with 7 people in the car i will put 5 gals of e10 in and 20 gals of e85 in. 7 large americans (including myself 228 lbs) weight down my van so i need all the btu's i can get. I also herd that blending 10% diesel fuel with it will can make up almost all the milage lost from using straight e85. plus it lubes the upper engine some. i'm gonna have to try it. but the main idea is to use the least amount of oil possibel. i also use synthetic oil, And i have noticed i can go longer between oil changes. i only change the oil when it looks dirty or every 20,000 miles which ever comes first. I avarage 18 with e10 and 15 to 16 with straight e85. but i herd adding 10 diesel can get you back up to almost normal. I run it in my tractors and they just love it. i hade to adjust the timing and fuel jet.

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