Oh, S. A , Can You C?

Ok, I have a Super A, and I know it's pretty much an A with hydraulics, same other parts (generally). Fine, I got that. And a B is pretty much an A except for the wide left axle and the narrow front end, and all associated parts therewith; I got that. I know that most drive train parts of all three will interchange, with noted hydraulic and stance-mandated exceptions. Now, from what I've gathered on this site (correct me if I'm wrong), the only difference in the A/B/Super A and the C/Super C engine is the bore/displacement? Is the stroke the same? The head/valves? Is everything that bolts onto the engine- manifold, carb, starter, governor, distributor/magneto, etc.- the same (allowing for production year differences, of course)? I know the C/Super C is a bit bigger, is most of the difference from the clutch back? Is the radiator/grill the same? Knowing this would sure help in searching for parts. (Or for souping up a Super A w/a C engine- would that be a "Super Duper A"?)

Rad

Rad: Basically you have it right up to comparing SA and C, both have C-113 engine. The big difference being the rear chassis, with live axles and 36" tires on the C.

The SC did get larger 3-1/8" bore with the C-123 engine, however IH also changed the SA to use same block as SC, with thicker sleeves giving 3" bore and keeping it at 113 cubic inches. That block part number is 354898 R1.

In the offset tractors there were more upgrades and changes made during Super A production, than the rest of the 40 years this design was used. Super A remained pretty much an A with hydraulics and new type drawbar until 1951 and serial number 310300. At that point engine was changed, steering box and complete tyrod system changed. The electrical system changed from cut out relay to voltage regulator in late 52. In 1953 came a change in case hardening of gears, cooling system changed to pressurized, clutch changed to Rockford, hydraulics upgraded, final drives and brakes were upgraded. In 1954 at serial number 356001 the engine was changed to C-123 and same as SC. At that time it also got a water pump and larger radiator. I've probably missed a few. When you look for SA parts, you should be aware of serial number and year. Most these upgrades can be added to early SA, but in some cases you must change more than just one part.

Steering change in 51 for example steering box and tyrods don't mix well between old and new. Final drive upgrade, to use one of these on an older tractor you must also change entire rear chassis.

The A,AV,B,BN and C all have 113cuin engines and all can be changed to 123cuin then would be the same bore and stroke as a SC. The B has wider diff housings than the A But the BN has the same width as the A diff housing which could be used to make a BN out of the A diff housing using two of them but they wouldnt have the bosses for rear tooling. Got all that straight or do you need more?

Gene: We probably should tell Rad, block number 6342 DH used in all A & B tractors and block 251069 R1 used in C and early SA will all take either 3" or 3-1/8" sleeves. Block part number 354898 R1 and R2 used in late SA, all SC, 100 and 200, sleeves are available for 3", 3-1/8" and 3-1/4" bore. Blocks 366204 R1 and 367825 R1 or R2 used in 130, 230, 140 and 240 respectively, only have 3-1-8" bore sleeves available.

Thanks alot, Gene and Hugh, that's exactly what I needed to know! My chassis is a '52 (at least the lefthand seat support is- at this point I'm not guaranteeing anything beyond that) and I'm still trying to determine what my engine is (see "Hey, Rad Redrunner .."), so that part about the early 50's changes- especially the steering parts- will come in very handy, I'm sure. I just have to determine if my front end matches my back end and what, exactly, is in between. I'm beginning to think I have a hodge-podge collage. And I thought a Super A was a Super A. HA! Silly me!