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Reversed H or M

R

Rifman

Member
I saw a tractor in a magazine that had been reversed. The owner flipped the ring gear over and put the loader on what is now the front of the machine. It looked like a handy rig.
My question is, do you have to split the tractor in half to flip the ring gear? Is that alone a huge job? Has anyone on this forum reversed a tractor before, and if so, are they happy with it? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks
 
You do not have to split tractor just remove frame cover BUT you have to find reverse operation frame cover and reverse operation shifting forks. For a picture of what parts needed look like look up reverse operation attachment in parts book.
 
Rifman: It's much simpler than you think. I once had to put some gears on the top transmission shaft of my 560. All you need remove is transmission cover. Of course the differential and ring gear have to be removed. Got the tractor all back together, fired her up, put it in reverse to back out of the shop, let the clutch out and started moving forward. Bingo, I had 5 reverse gears and one forward.

You can operate it that way, however the kit NDS speaks of will change the shift lever to other side and give you same shift pattern facing rear on tractor as you normally would facing forward. You'll run into same with clutch and brakes, I presume there is a kit for that. I moved a 300U forklift once at a sawmill. Clutch, brakes, steering, shifter, etc. were all done as if you were seated the other way on a tractor. It even had a throttle control in front of you.
 
Do I remember that the shift mechanism is interference to some part of the process?
and some make/modify the interfering parts. Or is it as simple as stated. JimN
 
On H and M when ring gear is flipped it is under shift lever. You can pull oil fill plug and see that ring grar only clears frame cover by about 1/4 inch and that is why shifter has to be moved to other side. In cotton country a lot of the retired high drum pickers that were reversed in drop boxes were reversed again (double reverse =foward travel) to get them running foward in high clearance configuration and used as spray rigs and no one I know of has not been able to do it without moving shifter.
 
NDS: My 560 worked without moving the shift rails. Note I put it in reverse to back out of the shop and to my surprise went forward. (refer to my earlier post) Now maybe the number series were different but it has always been my understanding the shift lever was changed to give one the same shift pattern seated the other way on tractor. I know that is how the 300U forklift I moved was set up.
 
Hugh if you get a chance pull oil fill plug on M and look at ring gear and visulize where it would be if it was flipped and you will see that it appears there is no way that it would clear shifter. I have reversed a couple and did not actually try to set top on without moving shifter but have been told by some pretty good old cotton picker mechanics that shifter will not clear. Have seen a lot of posts on this forum by people trying to find 2 hole top for M to make high clearance show tractor out of high drum cotton picker M.
 
Does someone actually make a kit for this process? A new housing cover, shifter, brake pedals etc? How about the steering? Is that available in kit form too? Thank you very much for your responses so far.
 
There is no kit that I know of. The answer may be to either modify the rails (etc) in the top you have, or find a cotton picker top with reversed shifter side built in. JimN
 
I used to keep asking about doing it with a Cockshutt 30. Lots of dealers used to do it in the 60s and 70s, to make "industrial forklifts" and cotton pickers and stuff. And then there was the Honey Bee:
a35252.jpg

a11182.jpg


I think both final drives have to be pulled off to flip the differential ring carrier. Dad told me to figure out the rest first--pedals, power steering, loader mounts, etc. I never got finished with that because I couldn't figure out the pedals. Here's mine:
a34213.jpg
 
NDS: I'd have to drive some distance to see an M, I'll take your word for it. My experience has been completely number series tractors. We know that transmission case is different from M, it must be enough different to allow clearence for ring gear.

My 560 worked perfectly one gear forward and 5 reverse, when I installed the crown and differential wrong way.
 

The 560, or at least many 560s, have a dual-hole transmission cover. Ours did, that's for sure.

I think that's the difference here.
 
Hugh one more thing the reverse operation attachment does not change shift pattern (I just went out and verified that on low drum picker in shed) and you have 1 foward and 5 reverse speeds just like you have which is purpose of attachment. If H and M can indeed be reversed like your tractor without the reverse operation attachment IH sure sold a lot of useless expensive parts in cotton belt. Contrary to what most people think a lot one row cotton pickers were sold as kit and dealers installed picker on tractor furnished by customer and every low drum and some of the last high drums that I have seen on H or M had the reverse operation attachment. Nothing you can do in transmission short of redesign can effect travel direction.
 
Dad had low drum picker mounted on 400 that he owned and even though 400 had 2 hole frame cover with bosses for mounting reverse operation shifter raile the bosses were not machined, drilled or tapped and they used reverse operation attachment frame cover. I still have original cover is shed.
 
NDS: Keep this in mind, we didn't see many high drum cotton pickers here in Canada. In fact I never saw a reversed tractor until the days on numbered series tractors. We started getting 300 and 350 Utility fork lifts ocasionally. 340 probably turned out to be the most common forklift.

While we think of the M, SM, SMTA, 400, 450 and 560 having the same size chassis, and it was, yet the casting changed substancially after IPTO and TA were added or MTA. I'm certainly not suggesting you are wrong about the M or SM. I just wanted to point out my experience with 560. I wasn't even trying to reverse the tractor. Just doing something I should have had a service manual to achive. You must remember farmers of the 50s and 60s, if all else fails consult the manual. We were a brave lot in those days.
 
Thank you all for the comments. You have given me much to think about. I am live in the midwest, so finding a proper transmission cover from a cotton picker might be tough. I am going to kick the idea of reversing an M around for a while. It just seems like it would be a useful machine as a loader. People in farm show have done it though, so I still may try it. Thanks again.
 

Gentlemen!!! (NDS and Hugh)

Please refer to my earlier posting.

You're both right!

Hugh is right that the 560 can be reversed without any special parts.

NDS is right that the letter series need a bunch of parts to be reversed.
 
You may very well be right but parts book shows shifter rails 360275R11, 360276R11 and 36027R11 for forward operation and 360278R91, 360279R91 and 360281R91 for reverse operation. The rails look to be different but I do not know why or if they or needed. The 2 shifter position frame covers were made for some reason I would think.
 
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