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todd hamilton 01-16-2004 15:38:19 68.51.69.246 60356 Report to Moderator	A safety message - I know we kid each other about 6/12 volts, distributors and mags. With all the frigid weather in the country I have seen posts on both the IH and Ford boards about how to jump a 6 volt battery with a 12 volt source - NEVER DO THIS! A storage battery is a large capacitor that has a maximum voltage rating. Connecting 12 volts to a 6 volt battery can easily cause the battery to explode. This is always a risk when jump starting 12V to 12V, but chances are very high with 12V to 6V. It makes NO difference how you attempt to ground it. Even more dangerous in very cold weather, as the electrolyte in the battery (acid diluted with water)may be frozen. The energy cannot properly disperse through the plates and the battery explodes. AND THEN YOU GET ACID IN YOUR EYES OR ON YOUR SKIN - OR YOUR EYE GETS TAKEN OUT BY A CHUNK OF PLASTIC OR METAL BATTERY PLATE. If your friend or neighbor is attempting this kick him directly in the buttocks, on the shin, or elsewhere to get his attention. I have been in the electronic business for over twenty years and I service x-ray machines and other medical equipment. I know that I am really on the soapbox here, but cannot stand thought of someone or their little kid helping dad getting hurt, blinded, or killed by stupidity!:( [Reply]   [No Email]
Howard H. 01-18-2004 20:39:43 63.163.49.182 60504 Report to Moderator	Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to todd hamilton, 01-16-2004 15:38:19   Hi Todd, I agree a person has to be careful around batteries - I've been around two that unexpectedly blew up on the farm and it wasn't fun - but are you sure the 6 volt vs 12 volt has anything to do with it?? I don't really know - but I've always heard it is a buildup of hydrogen gas that then is ignited from any kind of a spark. Usually either a weak connection will spark under the load of cranking or when connecting or disconnecting the cables... I'm not disagreeing with you - that's just what I've heard... I'd be interested to hear any more comments... CU, Howard H. Stratford, TX   [Reply]   [No Email]
Roger 01-20-2004 19:24:39 64.12.96.230 60637 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to Howard H., 01-18-2004 20:39:43   A battery does NOT blow up just because it's being charged or jumped. Otherwise, battries would blow up as you were plowing a field as the battery charged! The problem is HYDROGEN gas! A battery converts electrical energy into chemical energy and chemical energy into electrical energy. During the process of converting electrical energy into chemical energy (charging), hydrogen gas is released! When jumping a dead battery, NEVER hook the ground jumper cable directly at the dead battery terminal! As the dead battery charges, explosive hydrogen gas will be created. Removing the jumper cable will produce a spark. Need I say more? Make sure you hook your ground jumper cable far AWAY from the battery, and remove that cable first when unhooking the jumper cables! Obviously, hooking 12 volts to 6 volts will produce large amounts of hydrogen gas.   [Reply]   [No Email]
todd hamilton 01-20-2004 18:23:31 68.51.69.246 60634 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to Howard H., 01-18-2004 20:39:43   Yes, hydrogen is highly explosive and a spark can cause a battery explosion. Jumping batteries is a dangerous thing to do. I was pointing out not to increase your danger by connecting 12 volts to 6 volts. The plates in a 6 volt battery will not withstand the differential in voltage. It will overheat and explode. Would you plug your computer or TV into a 240 socket? No, they are made to run on 120. But going from 6 volts to 12 volts is the same ratio in voltage - 2:1 and not compatible.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Roger 01-22-2004 21:42:11 205.188.209.105 60735 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to todd hamilton, 01-20-2004 18:23:31   Todd has done a great service in pointing out the dangers of charging or jumping batteries. However, there are some flaws in his letter. First, a six volt battery will NOT explode just because it’s being jumped with a 12 volt battery. Since a lead acid battery converts lead sulfate into sulfuric acid during the process of charging, hydrogen gas bubbles up from the positive plates and oxygen gas bubbles up from the negative plates. Hydrogen gas is very explosive especially with oxygen present. It doesn’t require a rocket scientist to figure out what will happen if a spark occurs in the presence of those gasses. The point is: No spark, no explosion! What will happen if a 12 volt battery is continually used to jump a 6 volt battery? Think of volts as pressure. If you want to put air into a tire, you need to have an air pressure source that’s greater than the pressure in the tire. In order to charge a 6 volt battery, you need an 8 volt charging source. Certainly, 12 volts is greater than 8 volts. With the additional voltage push of 12 volts instead of 8 volts, the 6 volt battery will heat up and its liquid contents will evaporate. Batteries are charged best at a 2 volt greater push and a 3 to 10 amperage rate. At that voltage and amperage, lead sulfate can easily dissolve at its own rate to form sulfuric acid. Using a 12 volt battery to jump a 6 volt battery will cause a much higher charging rate. Instead of dissolving, the lead sulfate will clump to the plates, and the 6 volt battery will soon be rendered useless. That’s called a sulfated battery. That’s a good economic reason for NOT using a 12 volt battery to jump a 6 volt battery. Second, comparing alternating electrical current (AC) to direct electrical current (DC) is like comparing apples to oranges. AC is at a constant voltage, and it alternates between positive and negative poles (sine wave) 60 times per second. DC is NOT at a constant voltage or amperage, and it does not alternate. For that reason, it cannot be argued that jumping a 6 volt battery with a 12 volt battery is the same as plugging a 110 volt TV set into a 220 volt plug. When hooked together, the 12 volt battery will drop below 12 volts and the 6 volt battery will exceed 6 volts. The potential difference will not be two to one. Regardless, if you value your appearance and health, keep sparks away from ANY lead acid battery that’s being charged or jumped! Using a 12 volt battery to jump a 6 volt battery greatly enhances the presence of hydrogen gas.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Mike Schotte 01-18-2004 05:30:40 4.72.22.19 60438 Report to Moderator	Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to todd hamilton, 01-16-2004 15:38:19   Todd, Send me your e-mail address. I've got a picture to send you. -Schotte mschotte@flash.n e t   [Reply]   [No Email]
6 and 12 is 18? 01-18-2004 05:28:06 152.163.253.34 60437 Report to Moderator	Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to todd hamilton, 01-16-2004 15:38:19   If you have a MAG take the battery out and grind away.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Oldfarmboy Jim 01-16-2004 22:55:04 12.72.76.27 60380 Report to Moderator	Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to todd hamilton, 01-16-2004 15:38:19   I've known this to happen twice. Once was the son of our elementary school principal. It was a Sears Diehard that exploded in his face and permanently blinded him. He got a $3 million out of court settlement, but he'll never see the sun rise or set for the rest of his life. NOTHING IS FOOLPROOF! Be careful, it's dangerous out there, 24/7. Jim   [Reply]   [No Email]
Chuck Ma 01-16-2004 21:03:53 64.12.96.230 60379 Report to Moderator	Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to todd hamilton, 01-16-2004 15:38:19   It was -17 and wind was 30+ this morning in north central Mass, I have four vehicles 99 dodge ram 99 chevy blazer 94 sunbird 57 case 310 {6 volt}. s Ram would not start, would turn over but not fire. Sunbird would not turn, Blazer was in garage turned over and started with a groan. Case out side under poly tarp which I had not started in 10 days. While I was charging other car batteries I thought I would try to start the 310 "Old Yellar" as we call her. Turned the key turned right over after three spins fired right up. It just shows that a 6 volt will start as good as a twelve volt. Sunbird started two hours later took the Blazer to work and the Ram was towed to a heated garage. And I agree never jump a 6 volt with a 12 volt. Have seen a battery explode it was not fun.   [Reply]   [No Email]
varmint 01-16-2004 17:27:19 216.52.32.194 60365 Report to Moderator	Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to todd hamilton, 01-16-2004 15:38:19   Horsepuckey......take the battery out of the circuit.....ground lead to engine block and 'hot' lead (whether + or - gnd.) to starter terminal...Kapesh?   [Reply]   [No Email]
dctom 01-16-2004 18:02:31 66.228.102.120 60369 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to varmint, 01-16-2004 17:27:19   TODD AGREE 100 %, IS THIS THE PREACHING YOU WERE TELLING ME ABOUT ? TOM   [Reply]   [No Email]
todd hamilton 01-16-2004 18:08:02 68.51.69.246 60371 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to dctom, 01-16-2004 18:02:31   Yes - jump over to the IH board and read some of that. It will make your head spin. One guy says the top blew off of his battery and he doesn't understand why - it was new???   [Reply]   [No Email]
todd hamilton 01-16-2004 17:35:04 68.51.69.246 60367 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to varmint, 01-16-2004 17:27:19   well duh? The problem is that there are idiots out there advising that if you ground to the frame, don't crank the starter too long, and disconnect the jumper cables as soon as it starts the 6 volt battery "probably" won't explode. What you are recommending is a temporary 12 volt conversion which eliminates the possibility of exploding the cold, dead battery. You just need extra long jumper cables if your tractor has a distributor and you are going to drive it very far after you get it started.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Chicken 01-16-2004 16:07:27 205.188.209.105 60357 Report to Moderator	Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to todd hamilton, 01-16-2004 15:38:19   Right on Todd, You Proberally Saved Someones LIFE   [Reply]   [No Email]
todd hamilton 01-16-2004 16:12:51 68.51.69.246 60359 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to Chicken, 01-16-2004 16:07:27   Thanks! Jump over to the IH board and read some of that stupidity - you will figure out which response is mine.   [Reply]   [No Email]
ted 01-16-2004 18:03:54 203.189.128.197 60370 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to todd hamilton, 01-16-2004 16:12:51   Todd, I learned this lesson the hard way about 30 years ago, I had a 1256 IH with two six volt batteries hooked in series to give 12 volts. Anyway, the batteries were dead, it was not cold, butI tried jumping it with a new 12 volt, I am not sure how I hooked the cables up to the battery, but KA-BOOM!!!, I though a shotgun had gone off. Fortunately, I was wearing glasses at the time and I got to a hydrant quick enough to get washed down before I was permaently disfigured, but I sure had some red, burned facial skin for a month or so.   [Reply]   [No Email]
todd hamilton 01-16-2004 18:18:27 68.51.69.246 60373 Report to Moderator	Re: Re: Re: Re: DO NOT JUMP 6 VOLTS WITH 12 in reply to ted, 01-16-2004 18:03:54   Thanks for your story. People don't stop and think about the danger with this hobby. It is fun but a mistake with a tractor can be unforgiving and deadly. We had a neighbor near our farm (we don't live there) a year ago last summer who tied a log chain to the top link on his N series Ford and tried to pull out a stump with it. He died when the tractor flipped over on him.   [Reply]   [No Email]